Support for Non Mainstream Degree Majors?

I made this comment on another post.
"Our world is impoverished if we don't somehow encourage intellectual development and depth in a number of areas from music to philosophy. Not everyone should or could be a business or criminal justice major or in the medical field. Much as we laugh, we need people who are experts in medieval furniture, art, textiles, and so on. If not part of our history is lost."

I also noted the support in the Soviet Union for things like classical music, art, opera, ballet, and so on not just in terms of education but careers and access and promotion of these forms of pastimes among ordinary citizens (accessibility). I know there were political strings.

The West and our free market system has been different and it is very difficult for people in those fields even among graduates of elite programs.

To what extent should we support or subsidize fields that are beneficial to our society and culture but are not that marketable. Should we subsidize careers and research. We see more of this discussion with issues of Student Loans (debt forgiveness) and complaints (shaming) about people who earned degrees in medieval textiles or PhDs in Cello Performance. Stories about them ending up on food stamps caused derision.

Aren't our individual countries impoverished if the bottom line is always majors that make money (gradually eliminating areas of study)? For example, one University with a lot of DL eliminated its entire Philosophy Department.

 

Should certain departments be required to be maintained at State Universities and some coursework required as part of basics just to keep fields viable? Probably impractical.

I suppose another question is how the explosion of expensive for profits is impacting the breadth and depth of higher education offerings (narrowing what is offered). As I mentioned before, NPR reported on universities coming up with oddball graduate degrees (Gambling Mgt) that they hoped would be appealing (marketing) and weren't. Students don't want a course in Plato but an undergraduate course in beer making. In fact according to a Frontline program, students don't want to be over taxed intellectually period. One professor interviewed said she no longer (as in the past) can expect them to have read material and be prepared for a discussion (so she spoon feeds them) and another said the students don't bother her and she doesn't bother them (State University).

 

There are still Universities with fine music departments and avid students. Classical, jazz, you name it. Here in Canada, it's alive too. Plenty of universities and Community Colleges (including both a college and a University I attended here in my home town) have dynamite music programs. I listen to JAZZ-FM daily and many of the hosts earned music degrees and some have Master's degrees also. Most of the program hosts are working performers. There's a program every week called "Jazzology" on which people in their final year of college /university study are interviewed and get to play their own music and feature music of their favourite artists.

You can listen to this station on the web. https://jazz.fm/

Music is alive and well in the US too. Fine schools with great music departments - e.g. North Carolina University - School of the Arts.
Here's a piece on one of their grads - and I'm a fan. Nia Imani Franklin. Nia is a composer, actress, conductor and singer. She has also been elected to the Board of Trustees at her alma mater.

https://musicacademy.org/big-profiles/nia-imani-franklin/

Music in all forms is alive. People are playing, composing - and earning degrees. You want it? It's out there. And it's very, very hard work. But the rewards....

 

I am glad. In the US it is difficult for them post graduation. Which is unfortunate. Good on Canada for supporting them and the arts.

 

And you think it's easy here? It's not - but those of talent, persistence and determination do it.

Nia is an example of an American grad who really made it, despite any of the difficulties you speak of. She has come this far at 29.
Hopefully, she and other successful, talented, educated people will inspire many. Heck, not even "hopefully." It's happening NOW! I KNOW it is!

 

Tennessee State University has a thriving music department staffed with over 50 full-time and part-time instructors. Also, TSU Aristocrat of Bands won a Grammy recently. No better place to study music than in Music City (Nashville).

https://www.tnstate.edu/music/

 

The entire State of Tennessee has an amazing and unique musical history - huge variety of music. I have a few books on the subject. Highly recommend "Tennessee Music: Its People and Places" by Peter C. Zimmerman.
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/3204718-tennessee-music

 

Criminal justice is in the same boat as the other fields when it comes to utility. If more art majors were interested in becoming police officers, correctional officers, and security guards, they would have no problem doing that. Most of the time, you only need a high school diploma or some college credits.

Colleges and universities are cutting programs with low enrollment numbers. When students realize they can't work in their dream fields with their arts and philosophy degrees, they either decide not to go to college or to major in something else. Colleges keep their criminal justice, business administration, and psychology programs, despite the very high underemployment rates, because they're still very popular.

 

One thing to consider also is that we are in a period of hyper-specialization that really serves no one's interest. I encountered a degree major the other day of "Clubhouse Management." To be clear, the person with said degree assured me that it was largely the same as the hospitality degree but with a specialized focus in managing clubhouses (golf course). And I am sure that there ought be some specialized coursework toward that end. However, making it its own major seems...weird. Have a degree in hospitality and then just allow students to specialize. Add a certificate. Add a minor. But to make the major sound so super niche that it limits the student in being able to branch out into the broader world of their discipline seems more like a target marketing opportunity for the school than an attempt to serve the students (or the labor market).

For a Masters I can understand the draw. Maybe you know, at that stage in your career, that you'll only ever manage clubhouses. So you'll take 10 specialized clubhouse focused classes. Cool.

But to lock in a bachelors degree? Ehh, I'm not sold.

If anything, I think we need to dial back the majors and focus more on the liberal arts education which has been woefully neglected. Instead of marketing a school as validating your existing knowledge and giving you credit for everything you already know I think it would be novel to go back to saying "Hey, we're going to stretch you in directions you've never been stretched in before so you can grow." I think it would actually reduce the amount of major shifting and lost coursework which, unfortunately, colleges have little incentive to try to reduce.

Accounting was the big one when I was at Scranton. Many students came in to study accounting because it sounded like a promising career path. Then they would switch majors and find that they had to extend their stay in lovely Scranton by a year or more. These degrees are not broadening horizons. They are often tightly regimented and offer very little flexibility when it comes to breadth of learning.

We should be encouraging the accounting major to take that class in medieval furniture. We should want the history major to be forced to buckle down and learn something in a science and math course and not just take "Math for the Liberal Arts Major."

My grandfather never graduated from high school but was incredibly well read. Now we have entire generations of professionals with Masters degrees who are borderline illiterate, cannot string together a coherent sentence, have never even heard of Classical philosophers, never took a science class that involved actual science all churned out of an institution where you're essentially penalized for allowing your interests to shift and your motivations to evolve.

 

Kind of gives a whole new meaning to overeducated idiot.

 

Right -- but a lot of them are very proud of not knowing "all that useless stuff" as they see it. Most of those professionals have managed to get to a really impressive earnings level without having to spend time learning all those things you mentioned (which, I agree, are valuable and important.) And - seeing as those earnings are of absolute primary importance to them - it's pretty darn futile to argue. Walk away - it's just about all you can do, when they start crowing.

You can't really blame the system - or the now-professionals who took advantage of its shortcomings - but you CAN blame those who designed it -- for whatever good that does.

 

I agree with you. I think students should have to do a year or so before being able to declare a major. I had no idea what I wanted to do at 18 years old and I’d venture to assume many, maybe most, do not. I believe changing of majors could be reduced if we gave young adults an opportunity to figure out what they want before declaring anything.

 

I stumbled onto this while on another forum and found it interesting. Johann talks about rewards, well it certainly can be for the Concertmaster (aka First Violinist and usually a soloist):

https://adaptistration.com/2017/08/03/2017-reports-concertmasters/

Versus an Associate Concertmaster:

https://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/associate-concertmaster-and-first-violinist-salary-SRCH_KO0,43.htm#:~:text=The%20estimated%20total%20pay%20for,salary%20of%20%2438%2C061%20per%20year.

As you can see salaries are all over the map. And of course, the pandemic shut musician salaries down. But still, if you're the Concertmaster in a major metropolitan symphony you can earn substantial money.

 

I believe every word of that informed, excellent post. Financial rewards are "all over the map" as you say - in pretty well all fields of music. And the pandemic - yeow! But some excellent recordings were made = often in musicians' home studios.
Hope you like one of my pandemic-era faves: Barbra Lica's "Hello from my Basement -- it's here:



Yes - as Sideman says, financial rewards vary a LOT. The rewards of doing what you love (music) and constantly realizing your dream - not so much.

 

How many people actually work in areas directly related to their college majors?

At one time, my degrees were a BA (sociology), BS (business), MBA, and a PhD in something I called "nontraditional higher education." I didn't work in any of that. Yet, my bachelor's got me a commission, my MBA got me an Air Force ROTC appointment and adjunct teaching gigs, my PhD got me my consulting career and more adjunct teaching gigs.

Could I have done those things we even less "mainstream" degrees? I certainly believe so.