So we are no longer in Afganistan.

We have to realize that its not Biden but the whole apparatus involved, there are many influences on the policy, military SME's, generals, Government agencies, etc etc.
Nothing I will say in this forum will mater, the exit from Afghanistan is very complex. We expected the Afghan Army to stand their ground and not to disintegrate so fast.
Yet, President Biden’s decision to withdraw was made over the objections of his military advisers.
It appears that maintaining such a small force in the last months, we forced the military to protect either Bagram air base or the civilian airport. Lacking the manpower to do both is what has made the past days so chaotic.
But its possible that the president had valid reasons to discount warnings from his national security team. We don't know everything.
Finally I think the military advisers did not think the house of cards would collapse so quickly, they may had concerns but not in the way it played out.
Most of America’s top diplomats and generals were still operating under the assumption that they had ample time to prepare for a Taliban takeover of the country.
End was put to the endless deployment.
Maybe the advisors needed to do a better job persuading President Biden to protect both Bagram and the civilian airport, facilitating a more rapid and functional withdrawal of allies and partners?

 

We effectively failed at 20 years of nation building, which is a venture I never thought we should have embarked on. I mentioned how I believe I understand Biden’s desire to just rip the bandaid off because the end result, for the country, is inevitable… Without an indefinite occupation, another month, year, or decade likely wouldn’t matter. That’s understandable. My disagreement stems from the wind down though, while I do not believe this is remotely akin to Saigon, we have greatly endangered our colleagues and friends within the Afghan population IMHO.

 

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/us-special-operations-vets-carry-090023869.html

 

Nation building has succeeded at times in our history particularly after WWII. Our experience in general however has been mixed. We never did build a "nation" in our own southern states until long after the last combatant died.

 

As far as Democrats doing exactly what put Trump into office in the first place, well, yes, "the leopard changes not her spots". But the GOP is also clinging to its failed Trump ideas.

 

To clarify, I’m not a fan of criticizing tactical decisions made under stress and with limited information. What I have disagreement with is ‘the impression’, and while substantially differing results ‘may’ have been unavailable, I do believe impressions matter in these regards. At this time, we don’t know all that occurred behind the scenes and never will see that full impression, but many people are certainly under an impression that Biden’s insistence on ripping the bandaid may have closed off opportunities, partnerships, and arguably a more strategic plan. Regardless of our views, I’m also concerned he just handed the Trump machine one of the best campaigning tools that they could have wished for.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/02/18/biden-afghanistan-military-power/

 

Except Afghanistan, where the GOP has decided to blame Biden for everything that actually happened under Trump.

 

Trump and Pompeo negotiated the deal with the Taliban back in 2018. In exchange for a promise from the Taliban that they would no longer attack Americans. The Americans promised in return to be out of Afghanistan by May 2021. The Taliban liked this deal because they wanted the USA out. Trump liked this deal because he wouldn't have to deal with any bad Afghanistan headlines before the 2020 election. Kicking the can down the road until after the election meant he could deal with "ripping the bandaid off" fallout at a much more convenient time, if at all. Anyway that is the situation that the current administration inherited.

Biden was able to push it back from May 2021 to 9/11/2021 and then 8/31/2021. I'm guessing it might move back to 9/11/2021 before it is done. But at some point the Taliban will start attacking Americans again. So Biden's choice was either getting out or putting tens of thousands troops back into Afghanistan. Getting out is the best choice. The only criticism I really have is maybe Biden could have been more aggressive in pushing the government to speed up processing of SIV's when he got into office.

 

Libya, Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan and other Islamic countries with tribal identities and Islamic ideologies never been receptive of foreign (infidel) influence, or rule.
Soviets/Russians failed in Afghanistan to "force" their ideology of the agenda of "Friendship between Nations", in reality the Tajik's hated Russians, and Azei hated Armenians etc.
We also tried to make changes according to our values in the land were tribal identity and Islamic traditions and mentality come first, in the land were woman required to cover their bodies, hair, faces, its unaccepted by Islamist that woman be seen by male doctor, or a school like in the US a public school were mixed ethnicity all from young age are together. The melting pot.
Eschatological ramifications must be considered, How Islamic world see the events fit in to their prophetic time line?
What can Christians, or Jews etc, can learn with respect to their time lines?
History is filled with revolts. Take Maccabees against Greeks resisting Greek imposing their values. Romans appears knew not to do so unless the conquered continued to resist.

From interviews that I heard it sounds like we will be taking revenge on the ISIS k , so justified in continues war against terror with a different strategy.

 

I hate to say this but a war isn't over until both sides agree that it is over.

 

I have two daughters that raid the junk food cabinet. And when one makes a withdrawl, the other one always stands to benefit. They don't neccesaarily coordinate their activities, but both tend to benefit from the transgression.

Present day, ISIS and the Taliban have the same immediate objective, their long term goals are another matter altogether.

Don't pull the military out first and the civilian's second, as if they were some sort of an afterthought.

Partisan responses like this and you wonder why people react to you in the manner that they do.

 

Just working Trump's plan, the one Trump said could not be broken by Biden.

The moment we started pulling out anyone--civilian or military--chaos was going to ensue. But even if we accept your criticism at face value--and there's certainly plenty of truth to it, so what? What would be different?

 

Sorry, but none of that is terrifying. And none of it is strategic. It's the way it is when you have to dump and run in order to meet a timeline negotiated prior to your inauguration.

After 20 years, you'd think this stuff might stay in the hands of the Afghan military for a little while, but they'd already cut their deals.

Anyone who understands military logistics would be fine with leaving this stuff behind. Getting it all out of the country would have been both impossible and extremely expensive...and dangerous. I think the real argument is why all of it was there in the first place. But critics tend to wash over that--the precipitating event.

 

Actually, I don't. But you seem to, which is stupid and weird. Grow up.

 

The numbers that MC put up are unclear to me. They seem to match numbers in this Forbes article which says they are stuff left with the Afghan army from 2003 to 2016. Then of course not taken back from them before we left.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/adamandrzejewski/2021/08/23/staggering-costs--us-military-equipment-left-behind-in-afghanistan/?sh=6f5fb59e41db

 

Politics aside,
still, it appears from what I read with all the surprises we had on how fast the Afghan Army folded etc, there were failures and those are being critiqued.

 

It's in the eye of the beholder. Mine comes from a career in the military. Not trying to convince you, nor win some argument about it. Just saying that different perspectives might lead to different conclusions about the same data.

Trying to get that stuff out of country would have (a) completely undermined the Afghan military, which was NOT the goal, (b) been incredibly expensive, and (c) gotten Americans killed in the process. But, hey, maybe all of that would have been worth it. I don't think so, but YMMV.

 

Again, what would have been materially different? Not a thing. Nothing.