So we are no longer in Afganistan.

Terrible tragedy, on so many levels.

 

Agreed
Based on how quickly the Taliban took over after the USA spent 20 years Billions of dollars and many American lives getting Al Qaeda and then nation building in Afghanistan, it means to me that after getting Al Qaeda we should have pulled out, The attempt at nation building was apparently a total and complete waste.

 

Those of us of a certain age might disagree with the Current Administration. This IS Joe Biden's "Saigon Moment." We learned nothing from our Vietnam debacle. Nothing at all.

 

Turned out, of course, that Bin Laden wasn't even in Afghanistan. He was apparently being protected in Pakistan by that country's Army. GWB made two gigantic errors and both were in starting unnecessary wars. He hadn't learnt anything from Vietnam either.

 

It's easy to see how Britain ended up trying to run a costly empire. We haven't learned anything from them either.

 

'Were all of our sacrifices wasted?' War veterans react to stunning Afghanistan collapse.

"There’s a very defined, clear, loud group that feels like, as much as we hate what’s happening, it was time for the war to end. At the same time, there’s another very clear,
outspoken group that says we’re betraying the Afghans, and we’re walking away from an opportunity to have done something really good."

https://www.yahoo.com/news/were-sacrifices-wasted-war-veterans-023225199.html

 

China is trying to come to some sort of agreement with the Taliban authorities even as about a dozen Chinese engineers have been murdered by Taliban groups in the last few months. Xi badly wants to route his Belt and Road to go through there and to gain control of the country at least at a commercial level. Good luck with that, Chairman Xi. Uyghurs are Muslims.

 

From the beginning, not just at the end.

 

What could this, or any other, administration have done differently to create a different outcome? Not just distinctions, but real differences.

Under what circumstances are the Taliban prevented from taking control of the country? Or a more orderly withdrawal is effected?

Trump made his deal with the Taliban. Biden extended the date to try to get out more smoothly, but the Afghan army and police force were farces and collapsed immediately.

Other than sending tens of thousands of troops and re-starting the war, what could have held it off? And what could have changed the outcome? Seriously.

 

Well...hindsight and all that but even on 9/11 itself my first thought was that terrorism is a police matter not a reason to make war. Second, even then, it was clear to me that Saudis were behind the whole thing yet we took no action against that government. (Bush family friends, you know.) Later, of course, I was infuriated at Bush II's lie based sales pitch to invade Iraq. I guess the answer is, don't invade a country unless you have a clear exit plan.

 

As match as I hate war I bought the whole Iraq pitch and believed it 100% at the time.
I think some armies/countries learned that go in do what needs to be done for real security treat that needs to be addressed and exit don't stay for long time?
Israel had it Lebanon war and tempt to build South Lebanon army and buffer zone between the countries.
It failed and Israel withdrew from there but at least the rocket shooting from Lebanon that was weekly monthly stopped.
Looking back its hard to predict the future, I think US made real attempt and put a lot of resources and lives to train the Afghans to be a different country but it failed.
Afghan people seems to choose not to engage in war/ civil war at this time and rather live under strict Shariah Afghan Islamic law.

Time will show how things evolve there.
We definitely paid a heavy price.


.

 

For once, Lerner, I think you nailed it. The Afghans themselves chose not to resist the Taliban takeover and that has to be their decision alone since they will have to live with the consequences.

 

My guess is that the Taliban administration (if so it can be called) of Afghanistan will be focused almost exclusively on consolidating their power internally. There is no credible external threat to the regime this time but warlords are warlords and fighting between factions is a real possibility.

 

I do wonder about the Taliban and Pakistan. There is a nasty Taliban-like anti-government movement in the western border regions of Pakistan. The Afghanis made a sort of covert deal, as I understand it, not to support the Paki movement in return for the Islamabad looking the other way when the Afghani Taliban used the Paki frontier mountains as a sanctuary. Now that the reason for the deal has lapsed, will the Taliban embrace their ideological brethren?

 

Fun fact: This border region is where the fictional John Watson M.D. acquired the bullet wound in his (Leg? Shoulder?) that sent him to London to become the biographer of the equally fictional Sherlock Holmes.