Should there be a uniform "first professional degree" for teachers?

Discussion in 'Education, Teaching and related degrees' started by Docere, Aug 26, 2013.

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  1. Docere

    Docere Member

    http://www.edschools.org/pdf/Educating_Teachers_Report.pdf
     
  2. Ted Heiks

    Ted Heiks Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member Staff Member

    Nah ......
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 27, 2013
  3. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    The education profession is controlled by the individual states. We wouldn't want to centralize control of it, would we?
     
  4. airtorn

    airtorn Moderator Staff Member

    Let's add degree creep to another career field.
     
  5. Ted Heiks

    Ted Heiks Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member Staff Member

    And what degree title do you have in mind for this first professional degree in education? The title of Doctor of Education is already taken.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 27, 2013
  6. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly

    Master of Arts in Teaching, I suppose. But I don't think this solves anything that's ailing K-12 education.
     
  7. Ted Heiks

    Ted Heiks Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member Staff Member

    Master of Arts in Teaching a degree title for a proposed first professional degree in education? Most first-professional degrees carry the doctoral title and require three years of study for a full-time program. The only first-professional degree that carries a master's title, so far as I know, is the Master of Divinity. Furthermore, the Master of Arts in Teaching, as it now exists, requires a mere one year of studies.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 27, 2013
  8. Ted Heiks

    Ted Heiks Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member Staff Member

    And why not?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 27, 2013
  9. Docere

    Docere Member

    Good point! So-called first professional degrees are at least 3 years beyond the baccalaureate. Not sure what happens if the proposals to shorten law schools to 2 years are adopted.
     
  10. Ted Heiks

    Ted Heiks Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member Staff Member

    A 2-year JD?
    Reduce the degree title to MJ?
    Bring back the old LLB?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 27, 2013
  11. Ted Heiks

    Ted Heiks Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member Staff Member

    Good idea!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 27, 2013
  12. Docere

    Docere Member

    Librarians seem satisfied with "only" a masters.
     
  13. Ted Heiks

    Ted Heiks Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member Staff Member

    And how many years of study are required for a Master of Library and Information Science degree?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 27, 2013
  14. Docere

    Docere Member

    2 years. There was no expansion to 3 years to get a "doctorate" as is the case in several other professions. Hence, if the 2-year law degree proposals go through (and it probably won't)...
     
  15. Ted Heiks

    Ted Heiks Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member Staff Member

    ... the MJ degree
     
  16. airtorn

    airtorn Moderator Staff Member

    Without digging deep into it, centralizing control of it at the Federal level appears to go against the 10th Amendment.
     
  17. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly

    Wait, are you suggesting the federal government only do the things it's authorized to do by the Constitution? That would be anarchy! #sarcasm
     
  18. Ted Heiks

    Ted Heiks Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member Staff Member

    I'm not convinced that the individual states are doing any better than what the feds could do.
     
  19. CalDog

    CalDog New Member

    But you can have uniform standards without imposing Federal control on the states. It's possible (though not necessarily easy) for all 50+ states and territories to agree to a common standard.

    And this is actually not unusual in licensed professions. This is why an ABA-approved JD degree, from any state, automatically qualifies for the bar exam in every other state. It's why an ABET-accredited engineering BS, from any state, automatically qualifies for the Professional Engineer exam in every other state. These degrees "work" nationwide, and it's not because the Federal government dictated a common standard to the states. Instead, the states reached mutual agreement among themselves.

    The states aren't perfectly consistent as far as these examples go. For example, some states may also accept non-ABA law degrees or non-ABET engineering degrees under some circumstances, while others may not. But nonetheless, there is a clear uniform standard that is known to be acceptable nationwide. And practicing attorneys and professional engineers are grateful for it.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 28, 2013
  20. CalDog

    CalDog New Member

    The first professional degree is still the bachelor's in some fields.

    For example, the B.S. is still considered the first professional degree in engineering.
    And the B.Arch. is considered the first professional degree in architecture (although this is typically a 5-year bachelor's).

    If you have a properly accredited bachelor's degree in engineering or architecture, you are eligible to start working professionally, and you have met all of the educational requirements needed for professional licensure. It's not particularly unusual for practicing engineers or architects to lack graduate degrees.

    In fact, the first professional degree in nursing is the associate's degree. You can work professionally and pursue licensure with an ADN.

    So in theory, there could be a uniform first professional degree for teachers, and:

    (1) it wouldn't necessarily have to be a graduate degree; it could be a bachelor's, and
    (2) it wouldn't necessarily have to be centrally imposed by the federal government; the states themselves could agree on a common standard.

    But I don't know if these points are realistic in practice.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 28, 2013

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