Serious question for theologians of all traditions

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussions' started by nosborne48, Aug 27, 2005.

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  1. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    When and where did the doctrine first arise that God wrote the Bible?

    By "wrote" I mean to include "inspired", "dictated", "handed down on gold tablets", basically any concept, not that the bible is somehow kiddushin, that it, set apart and special, but that it somehow IS the written word of God?

    The idea is certainly found in Judaism; at the close of the Torah service, the gabbai (ME, on occasion) lifts the open scroll up for the congregation to view and chants "This is the Torah given from the Mouth of the LORD through the hand of Moses before the Children of Israel" (my rough translation).

    There are many aggahdot concerning Moses actually taking dictation including his agitation at writing the story of his own death. So the idea is definitely Jewish. But where did WE get it?
     
  2. Guest

    Guest Guest

    While no theologian, let me say the Bible itself claims to have been written by God. The writers themselves say they were inspired by God.

    Two crucial texts lend credence to this.

    Second Peter 1:20-21 declares "Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation. For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit."

    Second Timothy 3:16 says "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work."
     
  3. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    Okay, certainly one who accepts the supernatural explanation is welcome to weigh in.

    But the doctrine seems to be older, maybe MUCH older than the New Testament. I wonder if anyone can shed some light on the history of this belief.

    I wish I could say that Christians got it from Jews and Muslims got it from Christians but I don't think that's necessarily historically correct. I could be wrong but I think that the canon of the Hebrew Bible was established after the beginning of Christianity. We could easily have gotten the idea from you, in other words.
     
  4. Ted Heiks

    Ted Heiks Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member

    I'm gonna guess that from the story of Moses getting the Ten Commandments chiseled by YHWH Himself onto stone tablets and handed to him, it is but a small leap to think that YHWH may have chiseled the rest of the Five Books of Moses and handed it to him in installments. The prophets routinely start their books with stories of receiving the call of YHWH and then, as their books proceed, start with: "Thus saith the Lord" (which could give the impression that the prophets were YHWH's secretaries taking dictation).
    In the New Testament, I'm not sure of any place where it explicitly claims YHWH's authorship. But there is, I do believe, something in Revelation that warns of the dire consequences of changing one jot or tittle.
     
  5. mattchand

    mattchand Member

    I understand the Jewish leadership settled the canon of Scripture issue of the Hebrew Scriptures only in 90 AD, at the Council of Jamnia.

    Matt
     
  6. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    The problem with the Mt. Sinai model is that the Five Books of Moses weren't written into their present form until a thousand years or so later.

    The "written word of God" doctrine therefore couldn't have applied to the oldest parts of the Hebrew Bible.

    I can, BTW, accept textual self references to show that the doctrine existed at the time the text was written. That's not the same thing as saying the self reference PROVES that the Bible is the "written word of God". In the interests of full disclosure let me say here that I don't accept the doctrine itself.
     
  7. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    The comedian David Steinberg tells the story about Moses wandering the desert when he comes across the burning bush. The bush spoke to Moses.

    Burning Bush: "Come closer, Moses." "Closer." "Come even closer."

    Moses: "Ow!"

    Burning Bush: "Ha! Third one today!"
     
  8. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

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