Republicans still believe Trump's election loss was the result of a rigged election

Discussion in 'Political Discussions' started by Bill Huffman, Apr 12, 2021.

  1. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    No one with any knowledge of the 2016 election would argue that Russia played no part. The Mueller Report made it clear that Russia attacked our election. That does not prove your lie true that the left was preaching that Russia stole the 2016 election. I have provided evidence from reliable sources, from High accuracy sources. You have provided no proof just some videos of political pundits lying on Fox News about what the left was saying, a mediocre accuracy source. That is rated Mixed accuracy. This is just one of the lies told by the right that undermines our democracy. Here's some other good examples of lies told by the right that undermine our democracy "Yet the left for four years been telling that the 1. last election was fake and that 2. Donald Trump really wasn’t elected." You repeated this lie as well. Of course the best example of Republicans' undermining our democracy is the Big Lie. The Big Lie is that Biden didn't legitimately win the 2020 election. This is a lie that a large majority of Republicans believe even though there is zero evidence supporting the lie. The Big Lie even lead to the January 6 insurrection, a violent revolt trying to disrupt the peaceful transfer of power in our democracy.
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2021
  2. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    I thought I'd provide some more source debunking Lerner's lie that the left was claiming that Russia stole the 2016 from Clinton. The first article I looked at made me decide that any further looking shouldn't be necessary.

    USA Today, Nov 25, 2020, rated High Accuracy.
    USA TODAY's analysis of 2016 and 2020 election media coverage concludes the media did not report Russia stole the election in 2016

    Pretty damn definitive, I've read a lot of news over the past 5 years it matches my experience. The only exception is the Fox News lie that the left is saying that Russia stole the election.
  3. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    But this are not lies, only Democratic apologetic call it a lie after they were called on their bias.
    The major media reported that - Regarding the 2016 election, major U.S. media outlets reported that Russian operatives used online misinformation to alter American voter’s perception of each candidate, as part of an influence campaign ordered by the Kremlin.
    Hillary blamed Russia for her failure.
    So it's logical to say that Dem's blame Russians stole elections in 2016.

  4. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    Because you think it is logical for the Dem's to blame Russia for stealing the 2016 election it does not mean that the Democrats say that. That report did not say that Russia stole the election nor did it say that Democrats thought they stole the election.

    It is a known fact that Russia did what Russia did. That does not mean that Russia stole the election. They tried but their fiddling with the election did not have a big enough impact to change the outcome of the election. I've produced two High accuracy sources debunking your lie. You have produced no sources supporting your lie except for Fox News telling the lie that you keep repeating. Fox News is below Mostly Factual accuracy. Fox News is not even Mostly Factual, it tells you lies and you believe those lies. But, that does not make them true.

    I've produced two High accuracy media articles that prove you are lying. I suggest that you at least read them. Please stop repeating this lie.
  5. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    I would just like to add that it is very intellectually sloppy and poor form, in my opinion, to post videos without giving the date for when that video was broadcast. That is an important context. I suspect that this video original broadcast was probably in 2016 before the election even took place which would make it completely irrelevant to our discussion.
  6. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    No; but you know what is logical to say? It's logical to say that Russian operatives used online misinformation to alter American voter's perceptions. You know why? Because Russian operatives did use online misinformation, to affect 2016 elections. Not even going into many people in close Trumposphere uncomfortably close to shady Russians (including both the Don himself and DJTJ, as well as a professional evil minion and a convict Paul Manafort) - you surely have heard the name of "Putin's Chef" Prigozhin and what he's famous for doing, right? So that would be the truth and, moreover, the truth that is known in the Russophone cultural sphere to the point of being common knowledge (whether you are vatnik or a Navalny fan, pro-Putin or anti-Putin).

    What is NOT logical to say is that because the Dems was telling this TRUTH, GOP now are entitled to spread an opposite and equal LIE (which is not even, you know, equal). "Objectivity" does not work this way.
  7. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Define "stole". Election results were close enough that it is unknowable whether or not the result would have been the same without Russia's active measures. In fact, it is hard to argue they didn't have effect, seeing how that Wikileaks release sure looked like Russia-linked, and the documented dip in the polls it produced.

    What the WAST majority of the Democrats acknowledged is the fact that Don the Con held the Office of the President of United States. Because of, you know, Constitution and reality. Reminder: Hillary Rodham Clinton made a concession phone call the night of the elections, and concession speech next morning. We are still waiting for either act from The Most Tremendous Sore Loser in All Human History. Tick, tock.
  8. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    This is a right wing lie about what the Democrats are saying. Since the Democrats do not say (or at least I've never heard one say that) and two High accuracy sources say that the Democrats do not say this. So, I'd put it on the Republicans to define what they mean by falsely claiming that the Democrats say that Russia stole the election.

    What I have heard Democrats say many many times about this issue is EXACTLY what you said. It is not knowable what the impact of the Russia shenanigans were.
  9. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    HRC blamed Russia for her elections loss.
    That's a fact.
    She also blamed Comey.
  10. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    Bill you are correct I checked the CNN video date and its 9/2016.

    Here is one from Dec 16 2016

    And here is one from May 2019
    Former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton talks with Rachel Maddow about the successful Russian interference in the 2016 election and the dangers of Republicans putting partisanship ahead of national security just because their candidate was the beneficiary of that interference.

    Hillary stated Russia succeeded in helping Trump to win 2016 elections.
  11. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Lerner, could you please explain to the rest of the board the meaning and origin of meme "14 Rubles"? Some people can genuinely not know, but you do. You're just choosing to play dumb - the favorite technique of Russian vatnik trolls. Those same trolls who are not able to give a simple answer to the Crimea question, btw. Chej Krym?

    It is not the first or even second time when Hermione Rodham Clinton is being dragged through coals for stating the truth. Not even the first time in THAT election cycle; Bernie and bernieliebers did this to her at least a couple of times in 2016.
  12. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    She's right on the interference AND the dangers. She does not say Tumpr didn't actually win.
  13. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    She is saying Trump wining was because of Russians.
    I.e Russians stole the elections.
  14. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Lerner, could you please explain what is a "14 ruble comment"? I'll wait.
  15. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    My guess is that you didn't even listen to this because no where do they say anything like Russia stole the election. Where did they even say anything that wasn't true? No where do they even imply that Clinton would have won without Russian interference! Lerner, talking about the horrible things that Russia and Donald Trump did in 2016 is not claiming that Russia stole the election. Do you believe that Russia interfered in our election? Do you believe that Trump wanted Russia to help him win the election? Oh crap, maybe this is the problem! Don't you believe the Mueller investigation that indicted 13 Russian Hackers by name for hacking into the Democrats and the Clinton campaign? Perhaps you believe that is more lies coming from the left to make Trump look bad?

    Sorry Lerner, you made another false statement. Here's the direct quote of what Hilary actually said, "Russia had an objective to sow discord and divisiveness within our society at large and to help Donald Trump and they succeeded." No where does she say she would have won without Russia interference or anything like that.

    The Republicans are doing things and telling lies that damage and diminish our democracy.

    Here are some examples of some of the lies that they are telling.

    Republican lie: "Yet the left for four years been telling that the 1. last election was fake and that 2. Donald Trump really wasn’t elected."
    These are a couple of lies told by at least Republican senator Josh Hawley and Hannity and published on Fox News. Lerner repeated these lies on this forum. The quote is Lerner's own words.

    Republican lie: "You mean Dem's in 2016 and a the next 4 years after. I remember how Russians stole the elections in 2016"
    This is a very common lie first spread by Trump and enthusiastically picked up and repeated by many Republicans. Lerner repeated these lies on this forum multiple times. The quote is Lerner's own words. I have never seen anything like this said by Democrats. I presented two sources that are High accuracy that debunk this lie. For example, "USA TODAY's analysis of 2016 and 2020 election media coverage concludes the media did not report Russia stole the election in 2016" Read Lerner's quoted lie above. It states that Democrats have been saying this for over 4 years. Yet, Lerner thinks finding one pathetic example of a Democrat supposedly saying something similar, and it is only similar if one suffers from sever information bias like Lerner, will prove that Democrats have been saying it for over 4 years! Even if he finds one example where some political pundit made that statement it does not prove his lie true! But, he can't even find one! If the Democrat is not saying that Hillary would have won without Russian interference then how could you, Lerner, think it even comes closing to being an example of what you claim?

    Lerner has given us a perfect example as to why these lies were created by Donald Trump and repeated by the Republicans and the low accuracy right biased media like Fox News. Lerner is so consumed by this idea that the Democrats are lying about the last election it gives the Republicans cover to actually attack our democracy. Donald's motto is the best defense is a strong offence. So he attacks the Democrats to deflect from what he and the Russians actually did in 2016. The basic theme of both of those clips that Lerner provided was that allowing Russia to attack our 2016 election was really bad. That Republicans should also be concerned because next time it might be China helping the Democrats. But all Lerner saw was the lie that Donald Trump wanted him to see.

    Another example of a Republican lie that is even more caustic and damaging to our democracy is Donald Trump's Big Lie. The lie that Biden did not legitimately win the election.

    These Republican lies are being used as an excuse to pass laws to disenfranchise voters that don't vote Republican around the country. As well in some cases, to actually allow a Republican state legislature to overturn the voters choice in 2024 and give the electoral votes to the Republican presidential candidate that lost in their state.

    This attack on our democracy is a Republican ongoing project.

    P.S. Lerner please explain what a 14 rubles comment means. If I had to guess I would guess it is similar to our say about throwing shit against the wall to see what sticks.
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2021
  16. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Nope. It's an Internet meme referencing paid Russian trolls in service of Kremlin. Oligarch Yevgeny Prigozhin, the "Putin's Chef", is known as operator of so called "troll factories". One paid troll sued his troll factory, Internet Research Agency, for wrongful termination, and some details of its operations were publicised. And at the time, a troll's pay divided by the production quota equalled 14 rubles per comment. Hence, the meme, the one no Russophone Internet user can avoid knowing. Point is, Lerner pretends he doesn't know about Russian meddling, even though it's a widely known phenomenon complete with it's own meme. Incidentally, that's a trolling technique, and if he was not posting here for two decades, I would wonder if he's a 14 ruble poster himself. Not uncommon thing unfortunately.
    Bill Huffman likes this.
  17. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    What do you mean I pretend?
    Russia been meddling for last 5 decades and more.
    In 2016 they had better and more sophisticated tools.
    What gave you such an impression that I pretend I don't know about Russia meddling?
    I think its more Comey then Russia who affected the swing or undecided votes.
    And the deplorable for sure.
  18. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

  19. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    Not sure if you are stilling beating the dead horse or not. Assuming that you are let me try to help out.

    Republican lie: "You mean Dem's in 2016 and a the next 4 years after. I remember how Russians stole the elections in 2016"

    For someone to prove the above statement true would require all 3 of the following points to be proven.
    1. That the Democrat believes that Hillary Clinton would have won the election except for the next point.
    2. That the Russians helped Trump enough and/or hurt Clinton enough to steal the election from her and give it to Trump. Or at least that is what the Democrat saying it believes.
    3. That there were many Democrats commonly saying this over the past 4.5 years.

    None of your "examples" really satisfy even one of the above 3 points. What is especially amusing about this discussion is that it is probably obvious to everyone except you that this is a Republican lie. Because probably everyone except you has been watching left-biased news over the past 4.5 years and probably never heard this, seen this or read this and so they know it is not true. Of course, an exception would be if there are any lurking Republicans here then they too probably believe this lie to be truth assuming that they only get their news from Fox News and/or other mediocre accuracy right biased news sources.

    If this didn't help then I suggest you read the USA Today article that I linked. It debunks a meme posted by Republicans that believe the same lie as you.
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2021
  20. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    For those Democrats or Independents that have no clue what I'm talking about, I should add the punchline.

    This is a Fox News broad cast and they show a clip (taken out of contest of course) of some Democrat making an apparent assertion that Russia stole the election from Clinton then the political pundits sitting around the table all laugh and make fun of how stupid the Democrats are for trying to make lame excuses for them losing the 2016 presidential election.
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2021

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