question for Russ "without horns or teeth"

You could have asked the same question one hundred times in your thread and you would have received the same response. It is none of your business what my background is. Also, I would never answer any question asked in the manner which you have asked it anyway. You are just one more rude and pompous individual (of which there are many on this site) whose comments add no value to the discussion.

By the way, I hire people as well but I never would have treated a prospective employee with the disrepect that you did (assuming your story is true). I may not have hired them if they avoided my questions but I would never have threatened them for not doing so. Your interview skills are on the same par as your posting skills.

 

You know what, Russ? I like you and I appreciate your role as "agent provocator" that you play. I really do. However, I really don't believe very much of what you write.

I also believe that either you don't understand most of the posts that you respond to or you pretend to misunderstand as part of your "agent provocator" role. I'm not saying that you're unintelligent. (I've never said that contrary to your false implications.)

 

Ummm Russ...

You are not up for a job position. You are not up for ANY position. You showed up and started shilling the K-W party line. You make all kinds of inaccurate and untrue statements and declarations while failing to provide even a whisper of supporting facts. So drop the pompous attitude Dude.

 

Well, folks, there's no shaking a true mill shill.

The best thing to do it ignore it. It'll get bored eventually and go away.

 

Yes, it is. If a school is going to use an invalid test, don't blame people for learning ways to optimize their scores. We're not talking about cheating on the test, we're talking about getting as many correct answers as possible.

If the test is not valid, get rid of the test. That has been the argument against these things for decades.

 

You won't reveal your connections to unaccredited schools, but you use yourself as an example in a post? Why should anyone believe you?

This board had a few years ago a person who posted much in the same manner as you do: full of bluff, but no stuff. Turned out he was just a kid with no experience in this field. He just liked playing around. You're not him, but you're just like him. Your posts are contradictory (hell, they're even internally contradictory), you offer no support for your points, and you don't answer even the most basic questions asked of you--ones that do not ask about your own identity. Why should anyone take you seriously?

I don't blame you for not revealing yourself. How stupid you would feel!

 

Good morning, all.

Folks, here is a summary of the many questions posed by Degreeinfo posters here directly to Russ. So far, we do not have a single direct answer from Russ to any of these questions.

I will begin with the original (quite harmless and innocuous question) posed by Uncle Janko at the beginning of this thread:

(credit to all whose posts I have extracted in part):

===== start of questions posed to russ ======

1. Janko
Would you set forth--without identifying yourself or, beyond category..... the schools you may have attended or worked for, if any--what in your experience gave rise to your strong dislike of the regional accreditors. In short, what happened?

2. Janko
I do not recall Multnomah School of the Bible ever being discussed here; that doesn't mean it wasn't, but I don't remember any discussion of it.

Have you been a student there?

3. Galanga
Do you receive income from an unaccredited degree-granting entity?

If not, did you receive a degree in exchange for services rendered?

Are you the "provost" of an unaccredited degree-granting operation? Are you a director of humanitarian affairs? Did you contribute personal funds to a "charitable" cause in order to allow your employer to take credit for humanitarian acts? Have you acquired advanced degrees based on your "life experience" in the face of scorn from your family members? Do you feel that the AMA is overly protective of right of access to its guild so that anyone with a credit card should be allowed to take young children off insulin? Can you sleep at night? Do you believe your immortal soul has gone phhht and dropped into the void so that you have nothing left to lose? And are you being threatened with legal consequences by the "directors" of unaccredited schools sending message from one place, but really working in another place., and misrepresenting their identities in their messages to you?

Do you think your parents would approve of you if they knew the details? Would you hope that your own (hypothetical) children emulate you, or someone else?

Are you just yanking our chains?

4. BillDayson
If there are individual non-accredited schools that you like, what reasons can you give other people to like them too?

5. BillDayson
Distinguishing between mills and legitimate non-accredited schools isn't a trivial exercise, particularly when we aren't personally familiar with the school in question.

So, how should we approach this? What do you recommend?

6. Jake_A
Where, in granting "a degree for life experience," is the "testing?" Where is the similarity?

7. Rich Douglas
Please give us an example of an unaccredited DL school you feel is of good quality, yet is treated shabbily by posters here. Oh, and would you please provide an example (a quote) of such shabby treatment?

8. nosborne48
russ, russ, russ. You STILL refuse to tell us about yourself. Dear dear. Is it any wonder that we imagine the worst?

9. Uncle Janko
Nor did you answer my question--what is it that you dislike in what I have said to you on this thread?

10. Rich Douglas:
I would be very interested in learning more about this. What is your source of information?

(Russ had stated) At the beginning of the space program the government was using the services of captured German rocket scientists who did not have their doctorates. The government "obtained" legal PhDs for them so that they would have the same status among their peers.

11. Rich Douglas
Please tell us whether or not you "endorse" any of the following (and why or why not):

California Pacific University
Kennedy-Western University
Century University
Knightsbridge University
Madison University

12. DesElms:
Russ... answer the damned question!

I'll re-state it for you -- for a second time -- in case you've (conveniently) forgotten:

Would you set forth ... the schools you may have attended or worked for, if any? What in your experience gave rise to your strong dislike of the regional accreditors? In short, what happened?

13. Rich Douglas
You won't reveal your connections to unaccredited schools, but you use yourself as an example in a post? Why should anyone believe you?

===== end of questions posed to russ ======

Folks, need I say that Russ has repeatedly, not once, not twice, but several times, refused to answer ANY of these questions.

This is absolutely trollish behavior! Russ, in my opinion, is a troll. His frenetic and crazed dances around even the simplest and most direct of questions, is not only bizarre, but inexplicable and unnecessary.

Greg nailed it on the head: this is a very well crafted, red-herring flag-waiving distraction, one tool from the liar and deceitful poster's arsenal - a typical anti-accreditationist's and protagonist's bait-and-switch apparatchik.

Russ, which of the above questions can you now answer directly, to help redeem your tattered honor and credibility in here?

Ooops! I asked another question (of Russ)!

Ok, let us all watch the soon-to-follow show.

See Russ cover his eyes, ears and mouth. See Russ dance and swerve and do the loopa-hoopa-doo-doo-la-la while frothing at the mouth and spewing forth more anti-accreditation distractions and mill shill garbage!

A sad spectacle indeed.

Then again, Russ can prove me wrong, right now, right here, by answering any, some, or all of the prior-posed questions summarized above.

I am holding my breath..... please do not make me suffocate, Russ.

Thanks.

 

Folks, it doesn't matter what Russ' background is. I think he has a right to an opinion as long as he doesn't violate the TOS. He shouldn't be expected to present his qualifications or personal credentials in order to make a point. The name calling is completely out of line IMO.

I think the point is: alternatives to accreditation...

If you look at education globally, most schools are not accredited. This is a uniquely American concept originally conceived to determine school quality for federal funds and student loans. This is still the basic premise underpinning the accreditation system.

The common factor within the global community regarding education is that legitimate schools are either approved or recognized by an appropriate level of government through a process of evaluation. Without that, a school lacks bona fides. In the U.S., States (not the Federal Govt) have the right to Approve schools within their jurisdictions, however many simply license schools to operate and rely on the accreditation process and Federally recognized accreditors. So, in those States that have an approval process, quality can be determined using that means. Note: I am not talking about national utility of the degrees, only quality of the approved school (and yes, there will always be exceptions to every rule). In the U.S. there are also religious exempt schools (Bob Jones University is about the most famous of the faith-based unaccredited schools).

So, in the U.S. and the world I believe there are a number of postsecondary education systems:

US:
- Regionally Accredited
- Nationally Accredited
- Professionally Accredited (Fed recognized and unrecognized)
- Unaccredited-State Approved (not yet accredited or never to be accredited)
- Unaccredited-State Licensed including Religous Exempt (this category can also include businesses masquerading as educators)
- Unlicensed (rogue operations).

Int'l:
- Nationally Approved or Chartered
- Unrecognized

(with a central ministry of education there is limited middle ground)

 

ho trollis logomachos, or, it's Greek to me

Well, Kirkland, you're right. Russ is entitled to his opinion--if he has any.

He said on another thread that there was no such thing as truth and falsehood, so no one can know what his opinion is or isn't on anything, not you, not me--maybe not Russ. Any questions to him and any statements from him, in light of his denial that truth and faslehood exist, are totally worthless for any reasoned discussion of distance learning.

I have no questions for him and couldn't care less what he posts unless he violates the TOS. I have infinitely better things to do with my time than read nihilistic logomachy.

I know you would like to stick up for anybody who disagrees with me, so go right ahead. You and I at least *can* agree or disagree. Where there is neither truth nor falsehood, neither agreement nor disagreement is possible--and nothing from such a source is worth two seconds of anybody's time.

 

Maybe if everyone else had respected Janko's promise and given Russ some time he would have been more responsive. Instead, the pack jumped on him while he was too busy to respond, and now he is PO-ed. Grow up and act a little more professional!

 

Re: ho trollis logomachos, or, it's Greek to me

Janko, I think you have it wrong, I'm not sticking up for anybody who disagrees with you (it's not about you). I was becoming tortured observing your initial questions getting turned into an inquisition. I have not been following all of Russ' posts; maybe I'm missing something.

 

Re: Re: question for Russ "without horns or teeth"

Oh Come on Jim!

This is B.S.! "Russ" showed up here spouting the K-W party line. When asked to provide any support for his "opinions" he merely moved to another thread and did more "pot stirring". There is nothing wrong with having ANY kind of opinions, but start spouting illogical ideas that have the potential to waste readers time and money (as in years and thousands!) and expect to both be asked to support them thoroughly and your motivations to be questioned.

 

Re: Re: ho trollis logomachos, or, it's Greek to me

Hi Kirkland

I agree with your point about this thread. At the same time "Russ has done nothing to show he really believes in what he writes.

 

Beating him with a stick on the other threads wasn't working. Maybe letting Janko sweet-talk Russ for a while (without interference) would have prompted some honest discussion.
Badgering the guy only creates more clutter on the discussion board. The honest discussions get buried in the crap and turns off other people who come here for serious answers. If you don't agree with someone, say so but don't turn the thread into a forum for childish personality conflicts.

He apparently has good reasons for not identifying his educational background. If you need that information to respect his comments, then ignore him. Russ floats some "unusual" ideas. I don't have an opinion on his ideas so I don't comment on them, but they are food for thought.

 

Hi Kirkland:

Nor am I arguing with you. A review of the posts in question illustrates the point. It's also a waste of time.

Can there be a good discussion of issues about DETC and its acceptance/nonacceptance among schools of the regional accreditors?
Sure. You and I probably agree, as it happens, on most stuff in that discussion.

But neither you nor I post something indicating we don't really mean anything we say--and then post a post denying the denial, which creates a nihilistic epistemological circle. Do we believe the denial, or do we believe the denial of the denial, or does the original denial mean the denial of the denial doesn't mean anything, or...

Seewhutimean?

Peace,
Janko

 

"I cannot deny that I am in denial..."

 

quote
posted by JimS
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Russ floats some "unusual" ideas. I don't have an opinion on his ideas
--------------------------------------------------------------------

Really, JimS? You have no opinion on the many controversial and mostly unsupported statements made on these boards by russ?

What about this one?

quote
posted by russ
-------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't understand the difference between education and a degree. How can you separate the two and say that one doesn't apply to the other?
--------------------------------------------------------------------

You do know the difference between the two, I presume? You may have an opinion on the existence or not of a difference "education" and a "degree," do you not? Fine, if you do not.

Ok, what about this one?

quote
posted by russ
-------------------------------------------------------------------
As long as there is one good unaccredited college or university out there or "exceptions to the rule" as you state it, I will fight for their right to never be accredited and still be considered legitimate.
--------------------------------------------------------------------

You do not agree? You do not disagree? No opinion? Ok, fine.

Certainly you do have an opinion on this one below, since you have posted on these boards that you are currently enrolled at KW and are taking four or five (or is it seven) courses for a KW Ph.D. degree?

quote
posted by russ
-------------------------------------------------------------------
I went to the link you provided (thank you) and found no proof that KWU is a degree mill.
--------------------------------------------------------------------

Surely you must have an opinion on whether KW is a diploma mill or not? Or did you simply make the "no-opinion" statement above to support someone on this board who somehow has earned your sympathy and undeclared support?

I have an opinion on Russ’s behavior thus far, on these boards: I believe that he is a troll. I believe that his trollish behavior violates the board's TOS. But that is just my opinion.

At least I have an opinion (about Russ’s behavior and his oft-flagrantly wild, unsupported or unsupportable ideas and statements) for which I can and have provided justification and a basis for such opinion - and I do not shy away from expressing such.

It is a shame how far afield we have run from the initial thrust of this thread due to Russ's non-cooperative, non-responsive stance and his mill-shillish-like behaviors and statements.

Thanks.

 

quote
posted by russ
--------------------------------------------------------------------
It is none of your business what my background is.
--------------------------------------------------------------------

Umm, Russ, are you hiding something?

Knowing a poster's background on a communal discussion board is not abnormal and is often mere extended courtesy which may also provide necessary, pertinent and illuminating additional information in matters of some dispute.

But, oh, I know, I know, it is none of my business if you are hiding something.

I agree!

But it IS and can be some other entity's (not this board's) business, no?

Thanks.

 

Looking at Russ' posts (and the length of this thread)I believe Russ has been very a successful antagonist, considering he's got everyone's panties are in a bunch. It appears to me, it’s a complete waste of time trying to even have a discussion with him. You could all make better use of your time by ignoring him.

 

I couldn't disagree more. Russ attempted to run interference for the degree mills. Challenging that kind of garbage and pointing out how it only serves fraudulent enterprises such as K-W is important to preventing the waste of thousands of dollars and years of time by perspective students. Many people have commented on how visting DI saved them both.