question for Russ "without horns or teeth"

Discussion in 'Accreditation Discussions (RA, DETC, state approva' started by uncle janko, Feb 17, 2005.

  1. uncle janko

    uncle janko member

    Hi Russ:

    You've started a number of threads which have as a common thread (sorry) your strong dislike of regional accreditation. Some are attacks on it; some are anecdotal; some deal with auxiliary phenomena such as ODA, etc.

    I was very upset when one of those threads became the arena for political intemperateness--but you didn't do that.

    You have chosen not to identify yourself or the schools you attended. I respect that decision and can easily see that you might have good reasons of your own, personal instead of "programmatic", for that decision which don't add or detract from whatever credibility you do or do not enjoy.

    Here's my request:

    Would you set forth--without identifying yourself or, beyond category (RA, NA, UA, foreign GAAP, foreign non-GAAP--I think that covers the waterfront) the schools you may have attended or worked for, if any--what in your experience gave rise to your strong dislike of the regional accreditors. In short, what happened?

    Here's my promise:

    I will not attack or criticize in any way what you say in response to this. After all, one's experience is what it is. Your other posts and threads--hey, they're fair game for support or criticism. Not your response, if any, to this one, not from me, ever.
  2. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    The silence is deep and profound, Uncle.

    I tried as nicely as I knew how to extract this information from russ myself without success.
  3. As we sometimes say back in Wisconsin..... "silent as the tomb"
  4. Jake_A

    Jake_A New Member

    Uncle Janko:

    Good morning.

    This is a very positive thread that you have begun. I appreciate very much how you are handling the questions and request for explanations from "russ" - in a friendly and non-threatening manner.

    The silence, however, is deafening - and quite disappointing - but not totally unexpected.

    In fact, I would not be surprised if someone, a new member(?), were to mysteriously sign in to Degreeinfo with a different moniker and attempt to either:
    (i) answer the question (sincerely) or
    (ii) inexplicably and unnecessarily lambaste it - or you - or some of us here, just for posing the question here on these forums.

    If one could figure out a way to get the accreditation-bashers and quality-averse posters to discuss DL and accreditation issues non-anonymously, sincerely, and openly, one should apply and seek a patent for the idea. Somehow, "they" just will not bite.

    Then again, wonders will never cease, so we can remain hopeful.

    Oh, well.......

    Thanks for a well-crafted query.
  5. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    And still we can hear the beating of our own hearts.

    Well, russ? Where are you?
  6. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    Actually, Jake-A, russ' silence is a STRONG indication of some sort of involvement with a substandard school. This group is well armed with facts and figures to demonstrate that such schools are, at best dicey and at worst simple frauds. I'd sepculate that russ' connection tends toward the "fraud" end.

    russ' silence is eloquent in this regard, anyway; he knows that his "credentials" would be totally, utterly, objectively shredded in a way that he could not bear.
  7. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    I knew of an academic fraud that refused to name his alma mater but claimed a PhD on almost every post he made to any Usenet group. At one point he contacted KWU to investigate the possibility of "upgrading his doctorate". I thought it was very telling that he thought that KWU be an upgrade.

    I'm not sure why this story just happened to pop into my head just now? :)
  8. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    Ph.D. ver. 2.5 instead of ver. 2.0?


    Ph.D. 2000?

    Performance package with a Hemi Head?
  9. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    KWU with the added power of

    Wyoming state licensed - vroom
    self imposed yearly quality reviews - vroom vroom
    professor staff made up of RA graduates - vroom vroom vroom
    lobbyist that fights other degree mills - VROOM! VROOM! VROOM!
  10. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    putterputtergaspwheeze sigh




  11. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    Someone must have mentioned that darn Senate hearing investigating degree mills thing again.
  12. russ

    russ New Member

    Am I the only one that works for a living on this board? Although I would love to spend all my time here (because you guys are so positive and encouraging) but I have a company to run.

    Here is one local example (and I think there are many more) of those horrible schools that get blasted here called unaccredited colleges. In Portland, we have the Multnomah School of the Bible that grants degrees such as a Journalism degree. They have been doing this since 1939, almost seventy years. Since they are unaccredited (they are in the process of obtaining regional accreditation) most individuals are this board would call their education substandard or illegitimate. Don't deny it. Nonetheless, everyone in Portland knows that this is a good school and the degrees have merit.

    One objection I have is (not just with the regionals) is the whole idea that a degree from an unaccredited school has no quality. If I can find one legitimate unaccredited school in my medium sized city, there has to be a lot more which are not deserving of the denigration they receive on this site.
  13. uncle janko

    uncle janko member

    Hi Russ:

    Thank you for your reply.

    I do not recall Multnomah School of the Bible ever being discussed here; that doesn't mean it wasn't, but I don't remember any discussion of it.

    Have you been a student there?

    I promised you that I would not criticize your reply in any way.

    Similarly, I will not respond to the invitations to argument in your post; this is neither conceding their merit nor dismissing their importance--it is not responding, pure and simple.

  14. plantagenet

    plantagenet New Member

    Re: Re: question for Russ "without horns or teeth"

    Actually, by the looks of it they are not unaccredited according to a page on their website and that nifty little governmnet database. Two national/specialised accreditors - "Association for Biblical Higher Education, Commission on Accreditation" and "Association of Theological Schools in the United States and Canada, Commission on Accrediting" have them on their lists, not to mention their RA candidacy. Granted they have been accredited for less than ten years, but given they have been accredited by CHEA approved bodies, I can hardly call them unaccredited.
  15. uncle janko

    uncle janko member

    Thanks for the correction to my post, Plantagenet. ABHE is the old AABC renamed. You are quite right that ABHE and ATS enjoy CHEA recognition, and so Multnomah is not unaccredited at all.

  16. russ

    russ New Member

    I guess you call this "not responding." It's OK. Most people on this site have a very difficult time holding their posts.

    First, this is not regional accreditation which seems to be the only one that gets universal endorsement on this site.

    Second, I am not sure how long they have had this accreditation and therefore any degrees issued before such accreditation would be held with the same low esteem by this group.
  17. plantagenet

    plantagenet New Member

    Nationally accredited since 1996 (by ATS at least).
  18. russ

    russ New Member

    I saw that. Thanks for the link. That is for the seminary but I am not sure about the college and they don't indicate the date although it may be the same for both.
  19. uncle janko

    uncle janko member

    Hi Russ:

    I did not respond, nor will I, to the invitations to argument in your post.

    I did not, nor will I, criticize your reply to my original question.

    I thanked Plantagenet for correcting me, not you.

    I don't know what "I guess you call that not responding" means.

    I did not say that I would not post again on this thread.

  20. russ

    russ New Member

    Hi Janko, it is not important. Feel free to criticize (I know you are dying to anyway) otherwise this thread will get stale. Fire away.

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