question for Russ "without horns or teeth"

Discussion in 'Accreditation Discussions (RA, DETC, state approva' started by uncle janko, Feb 17, 2005.

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  1. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Perhaps "panties in a bunch" doesn't describe it. Perhaps respondents are motivated by a desire to counteract degree mill shill drivel with the facts. I don't think you--or anyone else--can successfully assess the states of mind possessed by other posters.
     
  2. DesElms

    DesElms New Member

    Re: Re: question for Russ "without horns or teeth"

    Oh, gimmee a break. Have you been following Russ's intentionally-sh_t-disturbing posts around here lately? You are in the same dimension as the rest of us, right?

    Perhaps you should have before using powerful words like "inquisition."

    I'd say that's an understatement... just in this case, mind you. I'm not making a general comment about you; just making a statement regarding this issue.

    Dave's right. This isn't about equal right to comment as if everyone were on the same playing field. Russ is a shill -- if not for a specific less-than-wonderful, then at least for the notion of them. It is part of this forum's reputation (which is so often discussed and derided in other, somewhat less-reputable fora that are populated by diploma mill operators and others of questionable integrity) that it quickly spots and will simply not abide those who make the "unaccredited" argument just for argument's sake. Russ, or anyone else here has a right to his opinion. But when it has the potential to mislead those who visit and read here because no one challenges the likes of Russ and, therefore, said readers are left to presume that there must be credibility in his words, then we've dropped the ball.

    Ha! In your dreams.

    Better that then leaving the words of the Russ's of the world unchallenged so that those same people end-up getting misled just so your political correctness meter won't peg in the red zone. People who want the answers badly enough will find them here and won't be distracted by a good shill pummelling.

    Yeah... like if he identified his educational background he'd instantly be exposed as having a connection with an institution that has been roundly chastised here; or he'd be shown to be a KW"U" student who just can't get his mind wrapped around the notion that he's wasted both his time and his money trying to earn (or having already earned) a "degree" that isn't worth the paper on which it's printed. Those sound like pretty darned good reasons to me!

    The first good advice I've read in this thread yet. This thread has accomplished its purpose. Russ came here to, as someone wrote earlier, stir the pot. Nothing more. He had (and continues to have) no other purpose. Shame on us for allowing it to work. The smartest thing we can do right now is just stop -- even if Russ returns and posts again -- and just let this thread stand on its own merits. Next time Russ posts in or starts a thread, just one of us -- only one -- needs to post a link to this thread so that the reader of the originating thread can realize who Russ is and what he's about and, in an instant, whatever he wrote will then be discredited.

    Isn't interesting, isn't it, how it's always those who claim to have no opinion about something who protest the loudest about the passions of those who do.

    Yes.

    Whew! I was beginning to worry that your position had no rational explanation.

    Exactly!

    Yes! Yes! What he said... that is, only after we've made sure that the reader knows who Russ and his likes are so they won't be misled. Once we've accomplished that (and I think this thread, despite its squabbling, effectively does), then ignoring him and his likes is the smartest thing we could do. Or so it is my opinion.

    And is, as I see it, at least part of what we should be doing around here.
     
  3. Rivers

    Rivers New Member

    I realise that degree mills are a big DEAL and there is nothing pretty about them and they should all be shut down!
    I also agree that somone should set the facts out there. All this has been done!

    so let's consider this Rich.

    If the only goal was to discredit Russ, had that not been done about a everytime this guy has posted. How I see it at this point is no one wants to let the other side have the last word. What Russ says is misleading and for the most part utterly wrong and anyone with an inkling of common sense would know that. All I'm saying is the continuation of banter is just feeding into him. The smart way to deal with a guy like this is to just post the facts and DO NOT debate with him because it is a waste and the people you are trying to reach, will read the facts and make up there own mind. YOU ARE NEVER GOING TO CHANGE HIS!
     
  4. Kirkland

    Kirkland Member

    DesElms: you give the impression you know all there is to know about this poster. Please, don't shoot yourself in the foot more than twice.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 21, 2005
  5. JimS

    JimS New Member

     
  6. russ

    russ New Member

    Let me first say that I don't even know what a "troll" is by definition. Secondly, it appears this poster is trying to set the stage to have me barred from posting on the board for being a "troll."

    I came here as most people would to learn more about this subject. I took a position that, albeit not popular, is a legitimate position to take and that is that unaccredited schools can still provide a quality education. That has been my consistent position throughout every one of my posts.

    Since many of you disagree with my position, you want to keep me from voicing my opinion. Is this the Taliban board where if anyone speaks against the god of accreditation they are to be taken out and shot? Freedom of speech is allowed as long as you agree with accreditation as an end-all?

    Although I gained a small education here most of what I have learned is how rude and insulting people can be when they hide behind their computers.
     
  7. plantagenet

    plantagenet New Member

    For your information, from the Jargon Dictionary (the OED is of no use in this situation)

     
  8. russ

    russ New Member

    Thanks for the definition, plantagenet. I don't believe I fit the description since I am here to learn not just try to get responses. I do post provocative subjects and take unpopular stands but, again, to learn and stimulate discussion. I see nothing wrong with this.
     
  9. Deb

    Deb New Member

    While a few people have been a bit rude, I think the majority of posters here have very reasonable and logical in their responses. What you have to realize is that posters on this board want opinions that are based on facts, not just wild conjecture. If you want people to treat you with respect, you have to give them well thought out debates with verifiable facts.
     
  10. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    Well... And we also object to the endless repetition of deceptive and misleading millspeak.
     
  11. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    I'm not trying to "reach" anyone. I'm practicing my hobby.
     
  12. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    You, too, are hiding. Many of us are very much known beyond our personas on this board. We're not "hiding." You have the right to remain anonymous. But you're the one "hiding."
     
  13. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    You don't back them up. You don't change them despite evidence to their contrary. You post anonymously, yet use your alleged "experiences" as reference points. Troll.
     
  14. DaveHayden

    DaveHayden New Member

    Exactly Rich. Also "Russ" posts ideas that make no sense to begin with and then claims he is "just trying to learn"?! We have seen this pattern many times before. We know that degree mills such as K-W, St Regis, and others watch this place like a hawk. It is pretty easy to see where "Russ" is "coming from". :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
     
  15. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    Being a troll is not a cause for being barred. True that most posting techniques used by trolls are violations of the TOS but you have not violated the TOS, IMHO.

    Here's the deal, Russ. Degree mill apologists show up here all the time. There seems to be two general types.

    1. The holders of bogus degrees that come here to try to defend their decision to become an academic fraud by claiming a substandard degree.

    2. The sellers of bogus degrees that come here to try to increase their sales.

    It usually becomes clear by now as to which category a degree mill apologist falls into. In your case, it is still unclear. (Now you have made implicit assertions that you fall into neither category, while I admit that this is within the realm of possibility, I consider that reasonable but unlikely.) This confusion/suspense as to which category you fall into does increase your appearance as a troll because it appears that perhaps you do fit into a third category which is just playing the role of "agent provocator" which fits well within the category of troll.
     
  16. uncle janko

    uncle janko member

    As long as newbies and lurkers are warned about the troll so that they take nothing it says seriously, I'm happy.
     
  17. Rivers

    Rivers New Member



    With a reply like this I made a very wrong assumption. I assumed you wanted to educate the public via this board.

    I now realise you are doing this for your own enjoyment and that your hobby is to respond to trolls. In this case I say have at it !

    As for me I still maintain it's a waste of bandwith to try and have a discussion with Russ.
     
  18. uncle janko

    uncle janko member

    Hi Rivers: Right on Russ, wrong on Rich.
     
  19. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Actually, a discussion would be ideal. But that's not what you get with trolls. What you get is a stream of unsupported assertions, unresponsiveness to simple questions, and more of the same. But it is important that these assertions be countered; you never know what people will believe.

    " If repeated often enough, a lie will become the new truth. "
    Paul Joseph Goebbles, Minister of Propaganda, Nazi Germany
     
  20. Rivers

    Rivers New Member

    Janko: I know I am wrong on Rich, I have found most of his posts very informative! At the same time I find it mundane to continue to go point for point with Russ.

    Rich: I agree but I don't see the need or the point to go toe to toe with him on every post.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 21, 2005

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