Pride is a terrible thing to waste

Discussion in 'Accreditation Discussions (RA, DETC, state approva' started by RJT, Jun 13, 2002.

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  1. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    Re: Acceptability is there ...

    Using this same logic we can show that Columbia and Trinity (two degree mills by your definition) also offer quality educations when in fact they don't (didn't) even teach any courses.

    Who is your employer?
     
  2. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator Staff Member

    Re: Acceptability is there ...

    Wait a minute.....first you state that Cohen was accepted into a full professorship based on his K-W degree, but when it's shown that's very unlikely at best, now it's good enough just to have K-W degrees listed on a RA school's website. That beeping I hear must be your back-up alarm.

    I have news for you....At least one RA school (Cleary College in Michigan) listed a faculty member with a Master's and Doctorate from Columbia State University, the biggest degree mill ever. This was exposed on Good Morning America last year.

    Just because the tech person writes whatever is supplied by the faculty member in their online bio, doesn't mean anything.


    Bruce
     
  3. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

    William Waldock seems to be a well known figure in aviation safety circles. As director of ERAUs Center for Aerospace Safety Education, he is often interviewed by the press regarding air crashes.

    Here's Mr. Waldocks bio, which list his ERAU masters as his highest degree:

    http://www.equipped.com/waldockbio.htm

    Here's the website for CASE:

    http://www.avsaf.org/case/

    And here's Mr. Waldock's faculty bio from CASE, which doesn't mention his K-W "doctorate" either:

    http://www.avsaf.org/case/faculty/waldock.html

    Among the stuff that came up on him at Google, was an Oklahoma State University page (that apparently no longer exists), which annunced some kind of aviation scholarship and gave "Mr. Waldock" (not "Dr.") as a contact person.

    So my guess is that this is a guy with a masters degree and quite a bit of solid military experience who has been in this field for a long time. Apparently he was struck by a midlife vanity attack and decided to top it all off with a "doctorate". But the K-W "doctorate" certainly wasn't what got him hired in the first place, and he really doesn't seem to be using it professionally except for that one faculty listing that Mike Albrecht posted.
     
  4. RJT

    RJT New Member

    KWU Real Coursework & Project

    Bill:

    Thanks for the input. However, KWU does have RA professors oversee actual courses, and does fail people who do not pass the final tets, as well as, requires the compeletion of a 75 (BS), 150 (MS), 200 (PhD) page capstone final project. It must be written in APA format; it is checked for format & reviewed for content by RA professors, as well as, sent to an anti-plagerism service. If your paper is not up to par in any one area, it must be rewritten. This report takes on average 6 mos., part-time, at the Bachelor's level.

    :(
     
  5. Re: Re: Acceptability is there ...

    Actually, it's a broken record of a back-up-alarm.

    "It's really a degree. It's legal. <BEEP!> The faculty are RA. <BEEP!> It's a real degree. It's legal. <BEEP>...."
     
  6. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    Re: KWU Real Coursework & Project

    As has been mentioned before, RA professors and RA academic discipline classes does NOT mean that a K-W degree is not a substandard degree.

    Is it true or untrue that currently K-W has a policy that 5 years work experience equals 60 credits?

    There may be other policies that make K-W a substandard school but that alone is enough to make K-W a substandard school and in my opinion a degree mill. As far as the "final project" goes, how many credits are you claiming that a 75 page report is worth?

    Also who is your employer?
     
  7. Art Huseonica obtained a PhD in Education from K-W in 1997. He has for many years been director of the undergraduate computer studies program at UMUC. Here is his resume on the UMUC website: A. K. Huseonica. Why is the K-W PhD not listed? Perhaps he hasn't had time to update the resume since 1997? But there are items from 2001 listed... (There's also a 1997 publication entitled "Computer Applications and the Adult Learner," which is perhaps his PhD dissertation.)

    Here is a discussion published by the Washington Post a year ago: Launching or Advancing Your High-Tech Career. Art Huseonica is introduced as "Art Huseonica, M.S."

    It would appear that Art Huseonica considers his unaccredited credential to be of limited utility.
     
  8. EllisZ

    EllisZ New Member


    He does list it here however:
    Long Resume

    And you are correct about "Computer Applications and the Adult Learner" being his dissertation. That is noted on the above mentioned link.
     
  9. Which is not on an official UMUC web site, but on his personal web site (even though hosted on a UMUC server): http://polaris.umuc.edu/~ahuseoni/.

    I personally think it's fine that he has an unaccredited PhD -- I'm just making the point that he doesn't seem to be making much use of the credential in an academic context (which was the original point of this thread).


    Gert Potgieter
    (occasional adjunct instructor, UMUC)
     
  10. EllisZ

    EllisZ New Member

    Gert,

    I wasn't arguing your point. I actually agree with you.

    I also don't find anything really wrong with the way he is using (or not using) his KW degree.

    - Ellis
     
  11. Mike Albrecht

    Mike Albrecht New Member


    I was actualluy refering to Richard L. Newman at Embry Riddle, who mainly lists his PhD from KW as his credential.
     
  12. RJT

    RJT New Member

    Self Expression

    I think the reasearch hits the issue on the head " that KWU actually makes you do a dissertation for the Phd". I am not saying that KWU is better/or even equal than a RA Degree, but they are absoultely not a Diplma Mill as others claim. Sure, maybe their structure is differnt than others, but, I am certain that the many students that embrace the KWU progrm otherwise might not have pursued higher ed. i can 100% attest that the course work is difficult, and although they may issue some life credits (not sure where the 60 came from), many DETC schools do simiar. I feel taht KWU has been useful to allow me to complte my degree, and given the fact that i was taking one class at a time, without the innovative cirricula of KWU, I would have never been so close to graduating.

    KWU is not Columbia State, you must do real course work.
    KWU is not Columbuia Commonwealth, seeking accreditation in Rowanda.
    KWU clearly states that they are NOT ACRREDITED, but they are State Liscenced.

    All instructors, school staff have been extremly responsive and supportive. If a student withdraws they have a refund plan.

    I realize that there will still be the nay-sayers, but i had to express myself.:cool:
     
  13. EllisZ

    EllisZ New Member

    Re: Self Expression

    Consider yourself expressed. :D
     
  14. Re: Self Expression

    This is unlikely, since Rwanda is not part of the (British) Commonwealth, having never been colonized by Britain. Rwanda was at one time colonized by Germany, and then assigned to Belgium following WWI. Rwanda became independent in 1962.

    (I don't mean to be too critical -- I know as much about American history as most Americans do about African history.)
     
  15. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    Re: Self Expression

    I thought that I explained it once before, sorry if I hadn't. I got an email from someone that said according to a 2 year old K-W catalog they had, the policy there is to award 60 credits for 5 years of work experience. What is the stated policy in their current catalog?

    Regarding your statement about DETC schools doing similar things, I don't believe you. It turns out that almost all the facts that you have stated have turned out to be untrue. Based on your track record I will believe nothing that you say unless you back it up.

    Please point at the DETC school that has a work experience policy similar to the K-W policy and please verify the current K-W stated policy.

    Please tell me what company you work for. (Or stop using the probably false statement to back up your position.)
     
  16. RJT

    RJT New Member

    Reply

    Recall the site as being American Military University. I work for a major computer hardwware company, in Recruiting.:cool:
     
  17. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    Re: Reply

    Sorry RJT, you've been caught in ANOTHER fabrication.

    Here's the AMU stated policy for credit transfer copied from their site. (http://www.amunet.edu/TransferCredit/Undergraduate.asp#11)

    **********Start of AMU web site text*************
    Credit Sources
    Nationally or regionally accredited institutions of higher learning
    Professional Military Education
    Military or civilian training evaluated by the American Council on Education (ACE) for undergraduate credit
    Approved examinations, such as the College Level Examination Program (CLEP). AMU accepts CLEP/DSST exams towards all general education and elective requirements at both the lower and upper division levels. There is no limit on the number of credits accepted from CLEP exams as long as the total number of transfer credits does not exceed the allowed maximum for each degree; 45 credits towards an AA, 90 credits towards a BA.
    Return to Top

    Credit Award
    Up to forty-five (45) semester hours towards an Associate of Arts degree
    Up to ninety (90) semester hours towards a Bachelor of Arts degree
    A maximum of 24 semester hours from all sources may be applied to core and major course requirements within your chosen degree program.
    In the event that you have greater than ninety (90) semester hours of applicable credit from multiple sources, priority will be given to those hours from accredited institutions.
    The number of semester hours awarded will depend on the nature of the credits presented and the General Education Requirements of your chosen degree program.

    ******************end of AMU web site text*******

    Notice that Work/Life experience are not mentioned. Please stop using fabrication.
     
  18. RJT

    RJT New Member

    What I meant

    Bill:

    This is what I was referring to:

    Experiential Credit

    "AMU will evaluate work-related experiences, both civilian and military for potential transfer credit. ... The credit awarded by AMU for experiential evaluation is not cumulative. For example, if AMU awards three hours of credit in management for performance at the basic skill level, and six hours of credit in management for performance at the next level, the total award is six hours, not nine hours."

    I am not stating that they do so liberally, but there are similarities. Also, if I've learned OJT, why should it not be applicable to a degree, especially if RA professors are evaluating. After all, they instruct the course content.

    Thanks,

    RJT



    :cool:
     
  19. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    Re: What I meant

    You didn't copy this part/ The paragraph previous to your above paragraph. It puts it into the proper perspective.

    AMU adheres to the recommendations made by the American Council on Education for experiential credits as listed in the most recent Guide to the Evaluation of Educational Experiences in the Armed Services. ACE does not evaluate all occupational specialties for all services. Specifically, ACE does not evaluate: any Air Force specialties, any Coast Guard Qualification Codes, any Army Skill Qualification Identifiers (SQI) or Army Additional Skill Identifiers (AQI), and only selected MOS's for the Marine Corps.



    At URL reference by that paragraph.
    http://www.acenet.edu/calec/military/guides-sm.cfm

    This three-volume set of guidebooks is the standard reference tool used by most U.S. colleges and universities to award academic credit for military learning. Contains more than 8,000 courses offered by the U.S. armed services and Department of Defense between January 1990 and the present.

    What it means is that military TRAINING may be transferable NOT life/work experience.

    But this was one of your better trolls.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 15, 2002
  20. Charles

    Charles New Member

    Re: What I meant


    RJT,

    I will be graduating from AMU on 22 June 2002. In my experience AMU is pretty conservative in awarding transfer credit. On my initial transfer credit application I was granted 67 credits. I already had an associate's degree and over 18 years of military experience. Ultimately, I was able to max out my transfer credit by completing Regents (now Excelsior) College and DANTES exams. Every credit accepted in transfer was either from an RA college or recommended by ACE. See http://www.amunet.edu/TransferCredit/Undergraduate.asp

    "Experiential Credit

    AMU will evaluate work-related experiences, both civilian and military for potential transfer credit. You will need official documentation of experiential credit.

    Please note: Graduate-level (Master's Degree-seeking) experiential credit may only be awarded for Professional Military Education (PME) and some MOS/AFSC/Rating-related training. You may, however, be eligible to receive credit based on the AMU Challenge Exams.

    AMU adheres to the recommendations made by the American Council on Education for experiential credits as listed in the most recent Guide to the Evaluation of Educational Experiences in the Armed Services. ACE does not evaluate all occupational specialties for all services. Specifically, ACE does not evaluate: any Air Force specialties, any Coast Guard Qualification Codes, any Army Skill Qualification Identifiers (SQI) or Army Additional Skill Identifiers (AQI), and only selected MOS's for the Marine Corps.

    The credit awarded by AMU for experiential evaluation is not cumulative. For example, if AMU awards three hours of credit in management for performance at the basic skill level, and six hours of credit in management for performance at the next level, the total award is six hours, not nine hours".

    Does KWU refer to ACE recommendations when awarding transfer credit?


    Charles W. Fout
    A.S. City University, 1988
    B.A. American Military University, 2002
    M.B.A. Liberty University (In progress)
     

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