POLL: Who is going to win the presidential election?

Discussion in 'Political Discussions' started by me again, Oct 7, 2016.


Who is going to win the presidential election?

Poll closed Nov 7, 2016.
  1. Hillary Clinton

  2. Donald Trump

  1. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

    I don't mind saying that I'm surprised at the result but it seems that it wasn't even close. The next 6-12 months will be interesting, to say the least.
  2. cookderosa

    cookderosa Resident Chef

    SO glad I was wrong. Based on the media, I was sure Hillary would win. This is my first election that I've really - really - cared who won. Wow!
  3. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    This was the most exposed, dirty, rigged election that the public has ever witnessed. Who would ever imagine that DNC operatives:
    1. Paid thugs to punch, disturb, disrupt and riot at Trump’s rallies
    2. throughout the United States.

    This is public-corruption on an unprecedented scale that Americans have not previously witnessed. It stinks of RICO because it's a nationwide operation that intentionally interfered with the electoral process by using violence and intimidation. It's sad.

    The elite left-wing media still “does not get it” and is still spouting and printing lies. Intelligentsia routinely mixes mix lies with truth to give credibility to a hell-bent ideology. As an example, please look at the lies that are printed in today's New York Times article (written by Matt Flegenheimer and Michael Barbaro). The article is supposed to announce that Trump won the presidency, but the article includes very strange and offensive lies. As an example, here are seven lies that are printed in the article:

    1. “Trump embodies the success and grandeur that his followers felt was missing from their own lives.” [Editorial note: This is not news, but it’s tabloid "gossip and lies" in the elite mainstream media. Instead of reporting the news, they are making it.]

    2. “He entered the campaign with shocking claims that Mexican immigrants are rapists and criminals…” [Editorial note: This is a classic example of how the mainstream media mixes truth with lies e.g. Trump actually said that some illegal immigrants who had committed violent felonies, to include rape, were not appropriately deported. However, lying reporters twisted Trump’s words in gross journalistic dishonesty.]

    3. “…his angry message…”

    4. “He suggested [anti-terrorism] remedies that raised questions of constitutionality, like a ban on Muslims entering the United States.” [Editorial note: foreigners do not receive Constitutional protections, as long as they remain outside the borders of the U.S.]

    5. “…he simply lied…”

    6. “A raucous crowd was at his victory party.”

    7. “White voters appeared reluctant to line up behind a white woman. [Editorial comment: hey stupid, it’s not about race or gender. The leftist intelligentsia still doesn’t get it]

    The Politiebureau's intelligentsia has incorrectly assumed that most Americans are stupid and powerless. The presidential election proves otherwise. “Elite media intelligentsia” is going to be squeamish for the next 8+ years because Trump is a wrecking ball against institutionally mandated political correctness.
  4. heirophant

    heirophant Well-Known Member

    Donald Trump complained repeatedly that many of the polls were biased against him.

    Here's the last Monday national polls from Real Clear Politics:

    Bloomberg Clinton +3
    IBD/TIPP Trump +2
    CBS Clinton +4
    Fox Clinton +4
    Reuters/Ipsos Clinton +3
    ABC/Wash Post Clinton +4
    Monmouth Clinton +6
    Economist/Yougov Clinton +4
    Rasmussen Clinton +2
    NBC/SM Clinton +6
    LATimes/USC Trump +5
    Gravis Clinton +4

    RealClearPolitics - 2016 Latest Polls

    I'm not convinced that there was any kind of conspiracy. Fox and Rasmussen are pollsters associated with the Republicans, and they had Clinton ahead.

    But something obviously went wrong with the pollsters' sampling methods.
  5. Maniac Craniac

    Maniac Craniac Moderator Staff Member

    @me again - Trump is to America as Snowball is to Animal Farm. The mainstream media and the liberal progressive new media have nobody to blame but themselves for this. As thoroughly childish, narcissistic, dishonest and unlikable as I find Donald Trump to be, the media railed so hard against him and pushed so hard to shoo in Clinton that it actually caused Trump to be a sympathetic figure. How many lies and misrepresentations can you launch against a single individual before, by sheer psychological reactance, you actually create that person's following?

    Who would ever imagine that an old, rich, straight, white Protestant male would actually represent the anti-establishment? It's bonkers.
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 10, 2016
  6. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Related to this is this excellent essay by Robby Soave:

    Trump Won Because Leftist Political Correctness Inspired a Terrifying Backlash
  7. Life Long Learning

    Life Long Learning Active Member

  8. Ted Heiks

    Ted Heiks Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member

  9. cookderosa

    cookderosa Resident Chef

    It's only day 2 and I've already stopped listening to the insults being thrown at those of us who voted for Trump. I'm part of the "white college educated women" demographic and I LOVE Trump. For me, it's not about Hillary (though I have no respect for her as a mother, I feel like she's an awful role model for women, and she is a evil, but still... it could have been any Democrat, I'd have voted for Trump). For me, ever since 9-11, I've felt like we've had limp noodle leadership. Our country is getting bullied, pushed around, laughed at, mocked, and our leadership stands by and lets it happen. Our leadership is weak and an joke. Trump, if nothing else, projects the alpha bravado that I want in my president. He also has managed to accumulate a fortune through entrepreneurship - a trait I respect greatly. I've never been more hopeful!
  10. suelaine

    suelaine Member

    The Polls

    One reason that some are having a hard time accepting this is because the polls misled everyone on both sides to believe that HC would win this election. I'm not saying people would not still be upset but I really think this false expectation has led to surprise on both sides, resulting in more gloating by those on the Trump side, and more upset on the HC side.

    Many of us have "wondered" about the polls, seeing and hearing a lot of strong support for Trump, especially in my area, but I will admit that I did not expect him to win. I, too, believed the media reports regarding the predicted outcome.

    I've been curious about that and watched the news to see what these pollsters have to say now and they are flat out admitting that they more or less dismissed many "white males with a high school education" believing they would not actually be voting. So I am an educator myself and believe in higher education, but I also believe that many people fare well with only a high school education and they continue to learn just by working, living, and interacting in society. What does this say about "educated" pollsters who dismissed those who would turn out to be very influential in this election?

    Many of this group described have been stating all along that they have been seeing, hearing, and experiencing wide support for Trump and that they were skeptical about the polls. This tells me that their form of "education" has served them in this case, where educated pollsters have actually shut down part of their brain, not seeing what was obvious to some others, such as an extreme number of signs in yards supporting Trump, often put there by those "dismissed" by the pollsters.

    It seems logical to me to expect those who bothered to put up signs, to also expect them to be voting. The more-educated pollsters stuck with numbers and research of past experiences rather than really observing the real world around them at THIS TIME. Just something for all of us to think about whether we were neutral, against both, or supporting one of these candidates.
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 10, 2016
  11. heirophant

    heirophant Well-Known Member

    There are a few journalists who are starting to get it, starting to realize that their own preexisting left-political beliefs and insufferable smugness and sense of superiority is standing in the way of good journalism. Here's a rather good opinion piece on that subject from the guy in charge of CBS-digital.

    Commentary: The unbearable smugness of the press - CBS News

    "It shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone that, with a few exceptions, we were all tacitly or explicitly #WithHer, which has led to a certain anguish in the face of Donald Trump's victory. More than that and more importantly, we also missed the story, after having spent months mocking the people who had a better sense of what was going on...

    Had Hillary Clinton won, there'd be a winking "we did it" feeling in the press, a sense that we were brave and called Trump a liar and saved the republic.

    So much for that. The audience for our glib analysis and contempt for much of the electorate, it turned out was rather limited... Trump knew what he was doing when he invited his crowds to jeer and hiss the reporters covering him. They hate us and have for some time.

    And can you blame them? Journalists love mocking Trump supporters. We insult their appearances. We dismiss them as racists and sexists..."
  12. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

  13. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    Ultimately, Hillary Clinton lost the election due to divine providence i.e. God raises up kings and brings them down (Daniel 2:20-21). That's the real reason. However, Comey's public announcement that the criminal investigation against Hillary was being re-opened (11 days before the election) caused her to lose the election. Many people will not vote for someone who is identified as a suspect. Otherwise, Hillary would have won and she would be the president-elect today.
  14. heirophant

    heirophant Well-Known Member

    Good post Sue, I liked it.

    Yeah, I think that the samples that the polls used were probably flawed. They sample different demographics, and then weight them according to the pollsters' estimate of expected turnout. Most of the polls seem to have weighted whites without college educations too lightly.

    (An exception was the LA Times/USC poll, which consistently had Trump ahead but was heavily criticized in the opinion research community for its supposedly bogus assumptions.)

    It's interesting how a large part of the media have been trying to spin the election as atavistic idiots without much education (Trump supporters) versus the better educated and smarter electorate (Hillary supporters).

    Contradicting that narrative, Trump won among whites even among those with college degrees (49% to 45%). What put Trump over the top though was his massive support among whites without college degrees, 67% to 28% (a 39% margin). That latter margin balanced the minorities that automatical block-vote Democratic (blacks went Hillary by an 80% margin, despite having significantly lower educational levels than whites).

    The less-educated electorate are the ones who are seeing their jobs being off-shored to Mexico and China, and who are facing increasing competition for jobs here in the states by the less-educated sort of immigrants, many of them not even in the country legally.

    Trump struck a nerve with these people. Finally somebody was speaking about the issues that concerned them. So they turned out in unexpected numbers.

    Behind Trump's victory: Divisions by race, gender and education | Pew Research Center
  15. Maniac Craniac

    Maniac Craniac Moderator Staff Member

    As far as I can tell, Trump just makes up his stuff as he goes along, plus it's often hard to tell when he's saying something to be cute and when he's saying something because he actually means it. It makes it next to impossible to actually predict what he's actually going to do.
  16. Abner

    Abner Well-Known Member

    I agree. I just hope he meant when he said he didn't want to touch social security.
  17. Life Long Learning

    Life Long Learning Active Member

    Maybe this poll shows degrees and educated are NOT the same thing!
  18. Maniac Craniac

    Maniac Craniac Moderator Staff Member

    I'm not sure what you mean by that, but maybe you can clarify. It sounds like an an insult against the 13 people who were wrong in their prediction, which, if true, would be 13 violations of the TOS.
  19. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Oh FFS. I'm hardly LLL's biggest fan, but unless you're now willing to apply that persnickety TOS enforcement threshold to everyone, it would seem better not to go there.
  20. me again

    me again Well-Known Member


    The first question that must be asked is: Are the riots a grass roots uprising or are they being paid for by communists with an ideological agenda?

    The violence and vengeful retaliation is strange:
    - Trump supporters are being physically battered.
    - Private property is being destroyed by anarchists
    - Public property is being destroyed by anarchists

    Here are a few samplers:

    1. Scroll down for two videos: (1st Video) Female trump supporter being battered and (2nd Video) Male trump supporter being battered:
    Video: High School Girl Viciously Attacked For Supporting Donald Trump » Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind!

    2. Journalist attacked by anti-Trump anarchists:
    Photojournalist attacked while covering Trump protest in Oakland - SFGate

    3. YouTube of Oakland anarchists destroying public and private property:

    4. YouTube video explains who is paying for the Rental-Riots (43 minutes):

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