POLL: Who is going to win the presidential election?

Discussion in 'Political Discussions' started by me again, Oct 7, 2016.

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Who is going to win the presidential election?

Poll closed Nov 7, 2016.
  1. Hillary Clinton

    59.1%
  2. Donald Trump

    40.9%
  1. Maniac Craniac

    Maniac Craniac Moderator Staff Member

    I said nothing of the sort. Still, I'll address your point below.

    Given that no evidence has (yet) been presented, and no insight into the way that such extrapolation was calculated, all we have is a claim parroted by unreliable sources that cite a source that may or may not even exist.

    See, the genetic fallacy only applies to actual evidence and actual logic. Here, we're presented with neither and only have the credibility of the claimant to go on and so far, that's not looking very good.

    Let me illustrate this for you. If Galileo had made 1,000 fraudulent scientific claims in his lifetime, none of that would be relevant if he put a telescope to your face and told you to look up, then showed you a piece of paper that demonstrated his math. It would, however, be the only thing of relevance if he simply told you that he saw something and that he had the math figured out.

    So, I shall do what I always do when there is not enough information. I wait.
     
  2. Maniac Craniac

    Maniac Craniac Moderator Staff Member

    The older I get, the more cautious I I find myself when it comes to judging other people's motives. What I can say is that I find it highly suspicious that the party that supports voter ID laws benefits from them and that the party that is against voter ID laws is hurt by them. It's too much of a conflict of interest to believe, for a certainty, that either side takes their position purely based on principle.
     
  3. jhp

    jhp Member

    I appreciate that you will wait for either confirmation or contradiction.

    Your original message appears to read as if it was attempting to poison the well. Clearly, that is not your intention.

    You do make a good point. I myself would like to see the underlying study, and methodology.

    my emphasis
     
  4. b4cz28

    b4cz28 New Member

    We can both agree it is in the interest of the group that stands to be deported, to get out and vote for the people who say they won't deport them. Voter ID laws are fair, why would anyone want someone who is not legal voting? You can be darn sure that I cant vote in Mexico. Its absurd to even thing that there can be two side to an issue as we know its been a problem.

    No American can be hurt by Voter ID laws. None. Free ID's should be made available to Veterans, people on disability etc. Low cost ID should be made available for everyone else.

    If that to much then make them all free.
     
  5. Life Long Learning

    Life Long Learning Active Member

    The middle class is leaving the Dem party. It's a party catering to Urban elites and illegals. The blue collar worker is looked down upon now as they are uneducated (sad).
     
  6. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    If they're not free to everyone then it's a poll tax, which I believe is unconstitutional.
     
  7. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator Staff Member

    I have to show an ID to;

    Buy a bottle of wine (I don't even drink)
    Get into a bar or nightclub (again, I don't drink)
    Buy a pack of cigarettes (I don't even smoke)
    Board a plane
    Buy a ticket to an R-rated movie (maybe they're M-rated now?)
    Buy cold medication at a pharmacy
    Check into a hotel room
    Open a bank account
    Apply for a job
    Apply for any government benefits
    Cash a check
    Rent a car
    Get married
    Board an Amtrak train
    Pick up a narcotic prescription
    Buy a gun or ammunition
    Buy a cell phone
    Donate blood

    But not to vote??

    The only plausible reason why someone would oppose showing ID to vote is so they can engage in chicanery, plain and simple.
     
  8. jhp

    jhp Member

    Let me write it again. The anti-ID concept is in its very roots racist.

    Those who suggest that because I am not white (or rich, or educated, or [insert non-protected class]) I am unable to get an ID is patronizing me and my racial heritage.

    They imply that I am too stupid because of my race to get an ID.
     
  9. Life Long Learning

    Life Long Learning Active Member

    There is a "race industry" in America....very sad.
     
  10. Ted Heiks

    Ted Heiks Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member Staff Member

    Hitler and his Nazis are right wing nuts.
     
  11. Ted Heiks

    Ted Heiks Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member Staff Member

    Janet Reno and the Democrats are left wingers.
     
  12. Life Long Learning

    Life Long Learning Active Member

    Hitler was a SOCIALIST (State controlled with limited private ownership) and a fascist dictator. Spell out NAZI. Right wing were the western allies and capitalism economy.
     
  13. Ted Heiks

    Ted Heiks Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member Staff Member

    National Socialism is not the same as socialism. The National Socialists, or Nazis, are Hegelians of the right.
     
  14. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    European political terms may not match-up with U.S. political terms. It may be a comparison of apples and oranges:
    1. The tactics of "the right" in Nazi Germany may be more aligned with "the left" in the U.S.
    2. Terms and political party platforms also change or evolve with time.

    Ironically, it seems like DNC operatives (classified as "the left" in the U.S.) are using political tactics used by National Socialist in 1930s Germany (classified as "the right") because they both orchestrated violence to achieve their political goals:
    - paying agitators to demonstrate i.e. "rental riots"
    - busing in demonstrators (it's not grass roots)
    - violence ensued from the paid agitators i.e. hitting, punching, pushing, destroying property, etc.

    The correlations are interesting - and planned.
     
  15. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    It's not just that the terms don't match, it's that no one's ideological terms fit well on a one dimensional spectrum.

    If you instead look at a Nolan chart there are axes for personal liberty and economic liberty. The Nazis and the Stalinists are both in the authoritarian quadrant.
     
  16. Maniac Craniac

    Maniac Craniac Moderator Staff Member

  17. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Even Wernher von Braun would know that should be an asymptote!
     
  18. jhp

    jhp Member

    Godwin's Law touches the probability of 1, therefore it cannot be an asymptotic.
     
  19. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Hitler approaches 1."

    At the risk of getting into the world's most stupid argument, the key word is "approaches".
     
  20. Maniac Craniac

    Maniac Craniac Moderator Staff Member

    Geez, dude. Don't be such a grammar Nazi. :tounge-in-cheek:
     

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