Oregon and Kennedy-Western

By ignorance is pride increased; those must assume who know the least. Gay

How can I fail my company's owners when I own the company?

 

Re: Re: send the orchestra home and sing solo

OK, I have adjusted, and now the move -- I tip my king -- you two win, Gus and Janko. Although your posts are littered with mischaracterizations, I do not wish to continue posting here if this is how it's going to go. I find it simply beyond my capacity to respond to such things at this stage in my life with anything but astonishment.

I admit that my whining likely brought this vitriol on towards me -- but to have my wife labeled a sadist who gets perverse pleasure out of any of what happened to her ... and to even suggest she provoked a 12 year old boy who was bigger than her to throw a ball at the back of her head (in front of 6 witnesses other than her own children) and prolong her care three weeks as a result is so utterly ... I don't have the word ... that I simply must bow out of the "board life". Of course you know, Gus, that when someone has a personal injury claim against a driver's insurance company that every new incident must be officially declared on the record so that the final outcome reflects any new incident. You're too smart to not have known that, so to have you suggest that there is some perverse pleasure in any of this is just ... well ... forget it.

I'll also stop posting at the other board, too, so you'll have nothing further to poke at over here, gentlmen.

Poke at me all you want in my absence ... I don't care, I deserve it -- or not -- up to you. But do Laleh a kindness and just offer a prayer for her health if it is your ilk to pray.

God bless and take care.

Adieu.

 

J'adoube????

Is that French? English? Frenglish?

("I doubt" is "Je doute" in French, if that was what was meant or intended).

"I'll also stop posting at the other board, too, so you'll have nothing further to poke at over here, gentlmen."

Good news! It's about time! Sheesh!!! Double sheesh!!!

 

(I never thought that I'd say what I am about to say in a million years. But here goes, since I am so sickened and tired of the "woe-is-meisms", the self-pity, rhetorical grandstanding, and possibly internalized child flagellation engaged in by one who will remain unnamed now, prior to this other poster's re-entry!)

Welcome! Russ! (LOL).

Oh, you do, do you? I take it you are referring to KWE or some other unwonderful "school?"

Ok. This thread is about Oregon and KWE. Are you ready now, Russ, to defend that entity? Again? With new heretofore little known or unknown or unpublished facts about that seemingly fraudulent and unaccreditable enterprise and minimally academic entity? If so .......

Double welcome! LOL.

 

What is the name of the company, and what is its location? Or would it be simpler for us to dismiss your statement as baseless?

 

Re: Re: Re: send the orchestra home and sing solo

In response to several private messages (it seems Quinn’s retirement is only from public posting), I have elected to post a public reply.

Although I have already done so privately, it seems that this apology was deemed insincere or inadequate, so I wish to publicly apologize to Quinn Tyler Jackson and his wife Laleh if my statements were misconstrued and either feels that I unfairly criticized or mischaracterized either of them. Contrary to what I am being relentlessly accused of (both publicly and privately), it was never my intention to “hypothetically characterize” Quinn’s wife, much less “label” or criticize her.

In a previous post I commented on specific behaviors; behaviors, I might add, that Quinn himself brought up for discussion. It was my belief that a behavior that serves no other purpose other than to satisfy an individual’s ego by means of inflicting punishment on another person could be considered sadistic. I voiced this definition within the context of opining that, involving the CHILD’s school and insisting upon a written apology from a CHILD that is not your own, without any clues as to the emotional state of the CHILD in question, or how contrite the CHILD may be, or even if the CHILD is sleeping well at night (not to mention whether or not the CHILD has sought and received some form of counseling), serves no other purpose except to inflict further punishment and satisfy adult egos. I stand by this assessment.

As such, if Quinn (or anyone that he disclosed felt or behaved as he did) did not engage in these behaviors or have other legitimate, albeit so far undisclosed, reasons for engaging in these behaviors, then my assessment is not applicable. So far, however, no refutation, disavowal, correction, or elucidation has been forthcoming, either publicly or privately.

Personally, I believe that all of this is simply a red herring. Simply put, Quinn is, once again (and I personally taken him to task over this very issue many times over the years), exploiting his family and their travails to indulge in his (self-admitted) penchant for playing the role of a victim. Quinn is a chronic whiner.

Quinn should be ashamed. He should be ashamed of relating a story maligning a minor child and accusing him of criminal behavior (without him being present to defend himself or present his version of events) solely for personal gain. He should be ashamed of trotting out his family and their illnesses and personal problems (once again!) for the sole purpose of eliciting sympathy. He should be ashamed for lacking any sound basis for his arguments and instead assuming the members of this forum are so addled that they will consider pity is an acceptable substitute for logic.

And so, another episode of The Quinn Tyler Jackson Show (and make no mistake, it’s always all about him) has come to an end. Despite now being renamed The Chevalier Quinn Tyler Jackson Show, it’s seems that all we actually got was a another rerun—same lame plot, same shallow character development, and same big letdown ending.

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: send the orchestra home and sing solo

Gus, you have spent way too many years being right if you think that sounded anything like an apology of any sort or kind.

Wait a few years, until you grow into a bit more compassion, and you may understand what I mean by that. Yes, Gus, compassion, empathy, and understanding. Amazing that someone as self-concerned as I would use such words perhaps.

However, as you mischaracterize my wife yet again, I see that you lack these most fundamental of human qualities, at least in your public demeanor. I have no need to refute any of your baseless nonsense, nor any desire to do so. That you cannot understand basic anatomy is clear: cervical vertebra C2 is about one inch below the occipital bone at the back of the head, and the ball hit my wife in the lower part of the occipital bone.

But let's forget about that all.

Just be happy and be well.

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: send the orchestra home and sing solo

Your hubris, Quinn, knows no bounds. My point was clear: I am sorry you misconstrued what I said. I am of the opinion, however, that this was not by accident, you purposely chose a cockamamie interpretation of my comments so as to suit your deceitful agenda.

It seems that your condescension is on a par with your hubris.

It’s not amazing at all, Quinn. Someone as adept as you at twisting and convoluting words and meanings to suit purely egotistical purposes employs any terms they deem suitable to his or her needs, including "compassion," "empathy," and "understanding," as well as, "wife," "family," "prayer" and "God."

If you are referring to the capacity to tolerate and turn a blind eye towards bullshit, Quinn, I plead guilty. Mea culpa.

You know, Quinn, if someone insulted, criticized, or mischaracterized MY wife in a public forum, I would be furiously posting messages refuting the SUBSTANCE of the perceived allegations. I would not be making averments and frabricating scenarios in an attempt to avail myself of yet another opportunity to whine and play the victim. As I told you privately: Butch up, man!

Let’s see: No desire to refute anything, but an incredible, uncontrollable, and insatiable need to whine and bitch. Got it.

Although this story differs significantly from the original version in which the ball MISSED…

Oh, never mind, Quinn; I don’t want to foment any more whining.

The truth is irrelevant only when it does not suit your purposes. Don’t you get it? The only relation your story has to distance education and degrees is that it, once again, helps prove that you have absolutely nothing on which to base your viewpoint that accreditation is “bad” therefore your bogus doctorate is equivalent to one earned at a legitimate institution.

These are sound scientific principles: ignore all data that does not meet your needs. Where’d you say you earned your doctorate?

I am, Quinn; I am. And if I weren’t, rest assured I wouldn't trot out the circumstances on a public forum in a lame attempt to elicit sympathy or corroborate a point.

 

List up, you scoundrel. There is no deceit here.

Every thing I have, I have earned -- the good, the bad, and the ugly. Every success, every failure -- these things have come from blood, sweat, and tears. I deserved the hardship I received, and I accepted it with open arms and took my licks square on the jaw.

So I don't need your pity, your sympathy, your tears, your support, your understanding, your compassion, or anything else. You have nothing of worth to offer me.

If I whine, it is because I have been wounded, whether by my own doing or not. If I whine too much -- fine, tell me to shut up about it.

But you, you heartless rapscallion, have wandered into territory that utterly nauseates me, deserves no considered reply or logic, or rationale discourse. It is utterly and completely baseless.

If you don't agree that you have -- then continue to live in your self-satisified haze. I pray you never wake up and realize that I am right about this, because somewhere there is a painting on a wall that is disfigured, and today another crack formed on it. And that crack, though it may not show when you look in the mirror, remains on that portrait.

Someone please ban be before I get really angry.

 

Ban be? Ban me? Bambi? Angry Bambi?

Enough, already!

Sheeesh!!

 

High-quality argument from a Columbia Graduate.

 

Finally, Quinn is right. I was wrong.

Why?

He is busily saying on another forum and in PM's to me that I wish harm to his lovely wife. I don't. I told him I would pray for her at Mass, when he first brought up her pre-basketball incident original injury. I did. Again today, too. I wished her well in my previous post. I still do. The nice lady needs all the help she can get.

Quinn lied in his earlier post and in his PM to me saying that he would never post on the other forum.

"Never" lasted about 24 hours.

Now--while carefully tending his martyr's shrine--he is openly defaming.

He did exactly what I predicted he would do.

So much for fake-knightly honour.

I was wrong. Quinn is not a maudlin snob. Quinn is a maudlin liar.

Maybe with a good dissertation. And a phony mill degree. And a constitutional inability to tell the truth in public. And endless borderline histrionics. St Otto Kernberg, pray for us.

The scenario requires a couple things for its completion: 1) The rest of us fighting with each other over Quinn; 2) Pleading with him to come back since we're sorry we objected to his manipulative and hostile blather.

Even our pet troll Russ is better than that. His posts at least are about distance education. And our pet surrealist Dr Latin Juris at least has a touch of humor in his malarkey (not to mention some human compassion for other people, not just himself; cf. Higuey fire).

Basta.

 

List up? Scoundrel? No deceit? As you certainly do not lack eloquence, Quinn, your subterfuge and obfuscation can only be attributed to deceit.

Riiiight. And this makes you different from the rest of us, how?

This seems to be nothing more than another promo for The Chevalier Quinn Tyler Jackson Show. I can’t see how it can be all about you, all the time, and still be nothing more than smoke and mirrors.

I’m sorry, Quinn, I have nothing to offer you except honesty (however brutal). That you find this worthless speaks volumes.

How many different ways and how often must you be told? And yes, as your wounds are self-inflicted, it is indeed deceitful to blame others.

I am sorry that being called on deceit and manipulation (not to use the term utter bullshit) nauseates you. You continue to say that my comments deserve no reply, yet reply you do. You say I am not worthy of discourse yet you attack me personally (albeit nonspecifically). I guess what you really mean to say is that you have no plausible reasons for your actions and no logical evidence to back up your asseverations.

I can’t agree with you, Quinn, as I don’t know with what I am supposed to be agreeing. As you have yet to make a single clear and concise point, quite frankly, I don’t know what it is you want. Am I supposed to agree with you that I have wandered into territory that utterly nauseates you? If so, would it be too much to ask what you mean by that? Am I supposed to corroborate your assertion that I am a heartless rapscallion?.

Quite frankly, Quinn, I don’t know what the hell you are talking about. Moreover, I don’t think I’m alone; I don’t think anyone else on this forum does either. However, after all this talk of haze and crack, all I could think of was that if, by any chance, you are on some kind of medication, I would suggest consulting a healthcare professional about adjusting the dosage.

Hmm…

Would it be too much to ask what you are so angry about, Quinn? Enquiring minds want to know.

The only thing I can think of is that the cockamamie ideas and opinions you have proffered are being thoroughly debunked (as a result of having absolutely no supporting evidence) and that, as you fancy yourself some kind of super genius and lay claim to a stratospheric IQ, this is, naturally and understandably, extremely upsetting. Is that it, Quinn?

Quinn?

 

Ummm....

Is it just me or has this thread gotten OFF track? This is one time I would wish for more active moderation.

 

No, it's not just you, Dave.

We--all of us who tried to deal with Quinn's histrionics--in fact got sucked in by the great bloviating vacuum all along the um borderline. Where there was not even the appearance of credibility, there really was no need to warn off anyone, as there is with the more standard earthbound varieties of mills and shills.

I apologise to the august forum for wasting its time and my own on this homemade nobiliary he-yenta.

Now that Quinn has exposed himself as a mill shill and an all-purpose ranter, let us return this thread to its topic by considering:

A) The moral dignity and plain common sense of Alan Contreras--whatever may be right or wrong with the ODA list.

B) The sheer emptiness of those who try to stick up for Kennedy Western Entity and its infamous 15 s.h. bachelor's "degree".

Alan said in his opening post on this thread--

"We now apply the same standards to a user of any degree issued by a state-approved degree-granting entity. We have asked the legislature to change the statute accordingly. This proposed change is in House Bill 2182, which we expect to be heard in late March. Anyone who wants to testify on the issues may do so at that time.

Foreign degrees will be treated the same way, except that they must be from a degree-granter that can prove that it has proper authority to issue locally-valid degrees in its country of origin."

What does this proposed change say about, say, an unaccredited Missouri-approved degree (insert any state here you like)? Or about uh Berne or any other school possessing FWIW accreditation from St Kitts & Nevis--not just a Kittitian or Nevisian business license?

Now I hope I've done my bit to get this back on track.

Janko the (very temporarily) Abashed

 

The question about state-approved degrees and how Oregon would treat them is a good one. If an unaccredited school has demonstrable legal authority from the State of Missouri (your example) to issue college degrees that are usable as general credentials, Oregon will allow those degrees to be used in private, non-licensed employment here with the standard Kennedy-Western settlement disclaimer: all written use of the degree must include the statement "unaccredited and not approved by the Office of Degree Authorization."

The complicated issue comes with religious exemptions. If a state exempts from state approval on religious grounds an unaccredited degree-granting entity, must Oregon accept those degrees, too? To set the stage, recall that the infamous Hamilton of Wyoming and the criminal LaSalle of Lousiana both had state religious exemptions.

Our intent is to accept degrees issued under religious exemptions, provided that the degree is used for a religious purpose. It is not clear that a religious exempt degree is a "state-approved degree" for any other purpose, unless the degree-holder can use the degree for any professional purpose inside the issuing state. It is clear that we can prohibit the use of religious-exempt degrees when the issuing entity has been found fraudulent (the LaSalle situation). This set of issues is quite complex and is currently subject to litigation in Texas, as it has been in other states.

Foreign degree evaluation is also complex, and there are substandard suppliers flying all manner of flags, as you know. In general, a degree must be fully usable inside the issuing nation for it to be considered potentially valid in Oregon. If degrees issued by a given entity in, say, Denmark, are recognized as valid by all other Danish colleges and employers, then I can't imagine why ODA would not accept it. This example, of course, requires that the nation have some kind of recognizable higher education sector to begin with, and oversight of it. That is why most Caribbean degrees are not recognized by Oregon: the "colleges" based on the Caymans and the British Virgin Islands are obviously unable to meet the standard.

 

Thanks for the detailed answer, Alan. I appreciate it. J

 

The old adage states : "Brevity is the soul of wit."

Thanks, Alan!

My-not-yet-born adage will say: "Confusion emanates from the wits of the soul-less," unless some unaccredited degree-holder somewhere has copyrighted the darn thing.

Question for the masses:

Life cannot possibly be fair. But full disclosure is mandated and is "fair game."

I am really intrigued by the possible, exceptional or widespread outcome of one of the Oregon ODA - KWE settlement stipulates.

Let's say I am an employer (big time, with savants all over my office suite ushering into my mega-proportioned and well-appointed offices, nervous job applicants and interviewees clutching portfolios with:

- CVs that state something like Jane Doodle, BS, KWE, "unaccredited and not approved by the Office of Degree Authorization."

- Business cards that pronounce loudly and clearly, Jack Doer, PhD, KWE, "unaccredited and not approved by the Office of Degree Authorization."

- Cover letters to HR stating up front, second sentence of first paragraph, Ms. Gotcha Dance, BS, MS, KWE, "unaccredited and not approved by the Office of Degree Authorization."

- Glossy and colorful business promotional flyers for the President/CEO of a foreign credential evaluation firm, Joe C. Crank, MS, KWE, "unaccredited and not approved by the Office of Degree Authorization."

And, oh, my business is not located in Oregon but is in the good 'ole USA.

I am meticulous so I insist on reading for myself, each and every document from every job applicant that is handed to me by my very able assistants and managers.

I am also a very fair-minded person, although I am predisposed to seek the best of the best for my up-and-coming multi-million dollar widget-producing and marketing firm.

And, oh, I am a stickler for legitimate, accredited institutions of higher education. (In another life, I was a degree mill hunter-cum-ChiefDrExorcist).

What would I do? What, in Heaven's name, should I do?

I know, I know, I cannot, must not, am prohibited by company policy, not to laugh - at least, not out loud or openly - during an interview or in staff and management meetings to discuss same.

Ok, forget about what I would do.

What would YOU do?

 

Well, the disclaimer is only required inside Oregon, but I think this will become a common requirement within five years.

Here are some thoughts about what an employer should do.

1. Did you advertise the position as requiring a degree? (in hindsight, why did you do this? Was a degree really necessary? It often is not.)

2. What is it about a degree that you needed for this position? Does the unaccredited college actually provide what you need? If your firm builds devices that need to crevulate, does the unaccredited school have adequate course work in crevulation? (A good example is the Washington tax law school in Utah. We just approved its degrees for use here. Unaccredited but obviously a legitimate program).

3. Will this degree, if listed in company publications, cause any customers to run toward or away from your company?

4. Are any external regulators or interested third parties likely to have concerns about the use of such a degree?