Oregon, again

It has come to my attention that my situation has become of some interest to certain individuals who participate in your web page discussions. Before addressing the status of my tort claim against Alan Contreras I would like to help inform this particular discussion with some basic civic facts regarding the ODA. It is important to note for those of you who are unfamiliar with administrative law in general and Oregon in particular that the ODA's main purpose is to "approve" schools to offer degrees in Oregon who hold no other recognition. In short, contrary to Mr. Contreras' pretensions outside the state of Oregon, the ODA's main purpose is to issue what amounts to a business license for schools that otherwise would be categorized as, at best, unaccredited schools. His own web page cautions students from ODA approved institutions to check with other jurisdictions as to whether they will accept their credentials with only ODA approval.

Moreover, how ironic that if any other state legislature enacted a similar statute as ORS 348.609 and thereby created an identical ODA for that state, no Oregon ODA approved school would be legal in that jurisdiction with only Oregon's ODA approval. As a matter of fact, the Oregon Department of Justice, the only Executive Agency with the constitutional authority to render any authoritative legal declaration in the name of Oregon, has informed Mr. Contreras that he has no business making any determination regarding degrees in use at Oregon Public colleges and universities (see, DOJ File No. 575-005-GE0271-00). In fact the Oregon Assistant Attorney General, Education Section, Elizabeth Thomson Denecke, who authored the above noted AG Opinion, writes unambiguously: "You have asked me to determine whether a publicly funded institution violates ANY state laws if it continues to allow a faculty member to use a degree and publishes that degree in college materials after the ODA found the degree to be illegal under ORS 348.609. It is my conclusion that such a use by a publicly funded institution does not violate ANY state laws [emphasis added]."

For the lawyers and political scientist who may be reading this, notice that Mr. Contreras refused to ask the direct question - Are Berne University degrees legal in the state of Oregon under ORS 348.609? I wonder why he resorted to what amounts to a legal end around? The answer is obvious to any reasonable person. Mr. Contreras knew that Berne University easily meets the statutory requirements for degrees in Oregon so he tried unsuccessfully to get a legal conclusion which would encompass Berne University without having to actually defend his ludicrous claim that an institution that is fully accredited by its government's Ministry of Education; listed in the IAU's International Handbook of Universities; approved for U.S. Title IV student financial aid; and is approved for the OREGON COLLEGE SAVINGS PLAN is some how illegal under ORS 348.609. By the way, no other institution on Mr. Contreras' silly list holds even one of these benchmarks for academic integrity. Therefore, it is time to put to rest, once and for all, the internet myth, promulgated outside the state by Mr. Contreras, that the state of Oregon finds degrees from Berne University illegal for use in Oregon.

One last note regarding the ODA's list of "unaccredited" colleges. What administrative legal principle is Mr. Contreras employing when he describes the institutions that appear on his, and only his list, in this manner: "Some of the institutions listed below are diploma mills that simply provide a paper degree in exchange for money. Some provide actual course work in a classroom or online...Some are difficult to classify." So, after confessing that these institutions are not the same, and some are difficult to classify, he proceeds to do what? Classify them all under the same category! So, California Coast is lumped in with such a notorious diploma mill as Lexington University. Such disregard for detail reveals either an administrative incompetence or a personal agenda. Whatever the case, such sloppy administrative practice would not be tolerated if not for the insignificance of the ODA in Oregon's governmental scheme.

As to my legal situation with the ODA and Mr. Contreras - let me first make something very clear: There has never been any legal action taken against me by any agent of the State of Oregon, Mr. Contreras included. On the contrary, I initiated the only legal action in this case, as the public records of Oregon will attest. My attorney, Bernard Jolles, of Jolles & Bernstein, filed the necessary legal notice of possible tort action against the ODA with the State of Oregon on January 21, 2002. At this point in time there is no legal issue pending as the state of Oregon wants no part of Mr. Contreras' personally motivated smear campaign and has refused to endorse his defamation of my credentials. Therefore, as a matter of law and principle (I refuse to hold the taxpayers responsible for Mr. Contreras' vendetta) I consider the issue moot unless the ODA provides me any opportunity to take all legal recourse.

In closing, let me also state for the record that I have submitted my credentials to a charter member of NACES who found my doctoral degree from Berne University to be "the equivalent of a doctor's (Ph.D.) degree in political science at an accredited institution in the United States." I hope this clarifies the issue with those of you who find it of interest.


Sincerely,
Dean Darris, Ph.D.

 

Thank you for your post, I found it most interesting.

Regarding your argument that your Berne University degree is fully equivalent to an RA degree.

1. Doesn't the fact that you wrote the above post and also that you felt compelled to take the actions you describe in your post prove that a Berne University degree is not fully equivalent to an RA degree?

2. Doesn't the fact that a Berne University Ph.D. is normally completed in one to two years of part time work prove that a Berne University Ph.D. cannot be equivalent to an RA degree?

 

Well, I must say, he certainly is long-winded enough to have a Ph.D.


I get the impression that this is not the first time that he has had to explain his academic history. I think that speaks for itself.



Tom Nixon

 

First, let me echos Bill's appreciation to Dr. Darris for participating in this discussion.

Second, as I have read Berne's information a PhD is generally a two year process (or longer). We should not forget that as I recall our own Steve Levicoff whipped out his PhD in two years on a part time basis at Union Institute.

I do not know that having to defend a credential is necessarily a proof of lack of equivalency. There are some for whom Capella, Walden, Agrosy doctorates may need defending due to a perception regarding totally DL schools. In other words someone with one of those PhD/EdD's may have an RA degree but is that necessarily going to excite faculty dean's at U of Texas or U of Michigan. Are they going to see the equivalency. Therefore having to defend does not mean less quality as a reality.

Personally, I would probably not rush out to Berne U. I think having the NACES assessment will provide utility to some folks in possibly obtaining certification but of course may not mitigate a perception of a St. Kitts university in the job hunting process. I really do not know.

If I recall correctly from the Berne site a PhD runs around 18,000 with summer residency, etc. For me personally, I might look to other similarly priced options from Australia or even South Africa where there education system is better recognized and the schools have a longer track record. A research PhD from AU or SA may have better utility and in some cases be much less expensive.

I think Dr. Darris had an issue with regard to ODA when we consider that he earned his PhD from a school that he was able to obtain NACES equivalency for and his employer therefore recognized the equivalency.

North

 

Not to defend chiropractors....well maybe I will. At least a chiropractor has attended 8 years of college. Most schools, or states licensing chiropractors, now require a bachelors degree before admission or as part of the D.C.. It then takes 4 years of chiropractic school. Most states now require passing a specifc science exam simliar to that required for M.D. and D.O. folks. Although many people do not agree with chiropractic as an alternative medical practice, it is hard to not to give credit to those who spend the 8 years and often more than $60,000 for the right to be called Dr.. Clearly they have not parcticipated in a degree mill. For the DC to get licensed they have to have attended a program accredited by their governing body. Chiropractic should not be lumped into the direputable group of docs noted earlier in this thread.

FYI, although I do not regularly use the title Dr. in most settings, there are times it is appropriate. I note the discussion earlier giving grief to the person with an Ed.D.. expecting to becalled Dr. If earned from an appropriate insitiution, it is appropriate if that idividual desires that title...it has been earned. I choose not to use the title, except in situations where I am called for expert testimony (based on my training), or in front of the state legisalture or in front of Congress when asked to testify. I do not use the title when I teach graduate school, but that is my choice. Many professors have the expectation of being referred to as "Doctor".

 

For real?

Do you mean Steve did the 35 peer review days, all course work, as well as the dissertation on a part-time basis, completing the Ph.D. in two years?

 

The Oregon regulations contain the following:

(6) "Accredited" means fully accredited and approved to offer degrees at the specified level by an agency or association recognized as an accreditor by the U.S. Secretary of Education, under the 1965 Higher Education Act as amended at the time of recognition, or having candidacy status with such an accrediting agency or association whose pre-accreditation is also recognized specifically for HEA purposes by the Secretary of Education.

(7) "Foreign equivalent of such accreditation" means authorization by a non-U.S. government found by ODA to have standards at least as stringent as those required by U.S. approved accrediting agencies at the same degree level. This determination may be made through one or more of the following methods at ODA's discretion:

(a) Direct investigation of foreign standards;

(b) Reliance on an evaluation and determination made by the National Association of Collegiate Registrars and Admissions Officers; or

(c) Evaluation of the transferability of courses and degrees earned in the foreign country to accredited Oregon institutions at similar degree levels.

http://arcweb.sos.state.or.us/rules/OARS_500/OAR_583/583_050.html

The question is whether or not the St. Kitts ministry enforced accreditation standards at least as rigorous as those employed by a US Department of Education recognized accreditor here at home.

In both these cases, the listings are merely a function of a foreign school having the usual approvals in its country of origin, along with (in the latter case) an agreement to some accounting and reporting requirements for handling student aid funds. Nothing is implied about the academic standards that the school had to meet in order to receive the local approvals.

I think that it's something more than a myth.

Of course, credential evaluators don't normally investigate accreditation standards in foreign nations. Their normal practice is to simply assume that approval from a foreign education ministry equals the equivalent of regional accreditation. But the Oregon regulations directly concern that issue of foreign accreditation equivalence.

 

Mr Dayson:

Let me correct each and every one of your incorrect enumerated assertions regarding certain quotes from my only previous post on this web page:

1. You seem to think you've some how refuted my claim that Berne "easily meets the statutory requirements for degrees in Oregon" by citing some Oregon Administrative Rules. Apparently, you are ignorant of the fact that an administrative rule is not a statute and is, in fact, a lesser law and must, by law, be written so it clearly reflects the legislative intent of its empowering statute. Moreover, sir, these regulations you cite were written by none other than Mr. Alan Contreras and are so poorly written that Oregon's Department of Justice refuses to enforce them. Please, be careful of asserting legal regulations of any kind until you gain a better grasp of American jurisprudence as you not only harm your credibility, you make this web page all the less valuable if it can so easily become a vehicle of misinformation.

2. No sir, the question is, how does any competent administrator argue Berne University does not meet the STATUTORY standards set forth by the state legislature of Oregon. Mr. Contreras' interpretation of the statute is ludicrous once one has some basic politcal science education and, hence, realizes that Mr. Contreras' interpretation boils down to the absurd claim that the United States government and the State of Oregon, are funding an illegal operation. Enough said.

3. Sir, to present IAU listing and Title IV approval for foreign institutions as merely a glorified rubber stamp is to so "straw man" the process as to make your response not worth dignifying with a response. It seems the most recent tactic of those who can't accept a school's emergence as a legitimate degree granting institution is to simply label all former accepted standards of academic legitimacy as no longer acceptable. By the way, if these recognitions are so easy to acquire, then why aren't any of the actual unaccredited colleges or diploma mills able to attain them?

4. Sir, here you go again, asserting a legal claim with apparently no knowledge of what you claim. If it is more than a myth, than I challenge you to cite one legitimate legal source in Oregon that declares Berne University illegal either explicitly or by implication.
Does the Oregon Constitution contain this clause? No. Has the Oregon Legislature deemed it in the stautory law? No. And, in fact, sir, the legislature of Oregon only explicitly recognizes NACES approved degrees as meeting the "foreign equivalent" requirements of the state. Has the Oregon Department of Justice deemed the degree illegal by an AG opinion? Well, sir, certainly if you expended the time to analyze my piece as carefully as you must have, then you already know the answer to that one. As a matter of fact, not only has the DoJ addressed the legality of the degree, it also meets Oregon's Department of Education's guidlines for the College Savings Plan (another fact you should have recalled from your careful reading of my post). Moreover, you must not be aware that I am currently employed as a full-time, tenured political scientist at a local community college in Oregon which introduced me to the Berne University program after the program was reviewed by my former college president who has many years of service on RA committees. I will soon receive a step advancement based on my doctorate. In other words, unless you want to hold to the absurd position that the Oregon Constitution, the Oreogn Legislature, and Oregon Department of Justice are all subservient to the puny ODA and its apparently incompetent administrator, Alan Contreras, than, sir, you must admit that such a claim is in fact a myth. If any indivdual after reading this post, and the facts therein, continues to allege Berne degrees are illegal, then they have indeed proved your point - it is more than a myth, it has now become a lie. Moreover, the ODA's claim that a Berne Degree is illegal would also fail to pass federal constitutional challenge since such a statutory interpretation would conflict with the United States treaty with UNESCO and would, therefore, have to be rendered null and void (please read Article 6, of the Constitution, and I recommend you read Missouri v. Holland).

5. Sir, your apparent ignorance of the professionalism and integrity in which NACES members exercise their expertise is very disturbing on a web page dedicated to "degree info" and is so egregious it renders whatever statements you have to say about the matter irrelevant. I encourage you to cantact NACES and inform them of your opinion of their malfeasance. By the way, are you an accredited NACES evaluator? If so, then please resign post haste before you damage further the credibility of your profession. If not, then please excuse me if I continue to find a NACES evaluation of my degree more meaningful than your assessment of same.


Let me conclude my substantive remarks by addressing three points made in other responses. One, you cannot earn a Ph.D. at Berne in a year; it requires the standard time to complete a doctoral program at Berne as it does at any other accredited institution. Two, I never made an argument that my degree was equivalent to a RA school. I didn't have to, the recognized experts in the field did so - NACES. I would encourage you who claimed I made such an argument to reread my previuos post and try find such an argument. And, three, to the co-author of Bear's Guide: You claim, after reading my post, that I must be used to giving my academic history. I hope you exercise better editorial skills in producing your guide than you do in reading my post. Where in my post do I explain my academic history? If I had done so it would have had to read that I graduated with honors from Portland State University (GPA 3.97) with B.S. degree in political science. That I was selected as a graduate assistant for my academic excellence while completing a terminal master's degree in public law and political theory. It would need to indicate that I served as a law clerk for the BCA, State of Oregon, where I actually did what Mr. Contreras is supposed to be doing now with Oregon school law: writing administrative rules to flesh out the statutory law concerning Oregon building codes. Lastly, and most proudly, it would include my doctorate in goverment from Berne University.

This gentlemen concludes my participation in this matter and on this web page (something we can all be thankful for) as it appears when it comes to Berne University too many individuals are more concerned with avoiding the truth than addressing it. No matter how much you wish it was otherwise, it is a fact that Berne University has achieved every meaningful measure of academic legitimacy. As John Adams once stated to another group of individuals who refused to confront reality because they were politically predisposed to deny it - "facts are stubborn things."

Sincerely,
Dean Darris, Ph.D.

 

Dr. Darris

Can you teach my kids to do their homework as well as you have?

So if Oregon is going to recognize inferior state licensed schools they're damn well going to be Oregon inferior state licensed schools.

 

Union learners are technically 3/4-time. However, the program is self-paced, so the rare learner can do it in 2 years. 3-4 is the norm, however, with some of us taking much longer.

 

Oregon isn't the issue. New Hampshire is the issue. St. Kitts and Nevis is the issue.

Berne University operates from New Hampshire without a state license, and contrary to the state's oversight officials. Berne is "accrcedited" by a nation (St. Kitts and Nevis) with no semblance of a higher educational system.

As Bear reported, Berne has offered on at least one occasion to waive attending the summer session for a student who claimed he/she couldn't go. Attending may not be required if one presses the issue.

Can Berne graduates get employed based upon their Berne degrees? Will employers recognized them? Sure. So what? The school is not properly recognized in the U.S. or anywhere else in the world. Its listing in the IHU is an anomaly at best. It is "accredited" by a nation with no process for doing so. It operates from a state that has not licensed it do so. Who would want that?

There are thousands of people with Columbia State University degrees putting them to use in the workplace. That's hardly a standard of academic excellence or acceptance. Berne University operates from the same level of recognition and legitimacy.

I couldn't care less if this guy is successful in getting his employer to accept his degree. Enjoy it. But Berne is emphatically NOT comparable to an RA school. It operates in a state under the jursidiction of an RA (the New England Association), but without the benefit of that accreditor's accreditation. No explaining that.

A Berne degree is just a crummy piece of paper. If it fools some people, oh well. That's a helluva way to live. Enjoy your fight.

 

Boy do we feel silly. Talking about Oregon legislation when all the time it wasn't even the issue. Sorry we didn't check first.

So Oregon hands out school licenses like sheets of toilet paper but refuses to recognize California approved degrees, when that state has some degree of academic oversight of unaccredited degree programs. Interesting.

According to Dr. Darris, Oregon legislation requires the standard to be meeting the quality of Oregon licensed degrees. Rejecting every other degree but accreditated ones is a creation of Contreras in writing regulations not backed by the legislation.

We were all concerned with the constitutionality of such legislation and it turns out that the supposed legislation is unenforceable ultra vires regulation.

Now what was this New Kitt's, St. Hamphire stuff all about.

 

Hunh. How very interesting to have the good Doctor appear and defend his PhD.

I don't quite agree with his charactorizations regarding the status of administrative regulations and I HAVE spent a hell of a lot of time doing administrative law.

Having said that, I do agree that we really don't know (in the legal sense) what, if anything, the Oregon statute means yet. It's quite possible that the Oregon Attorney General is unwilling to test the statute in the Courts for fear of making what such lawyers call "bad law". As I've said before, I have my doubts on the issue.

Hunh. Ain't the Internet wunnerful?

Nosborne, JD

 

Unfortunately, it seems that Dean Darris can't accept these simple facts. The Berne graduation requirements are not up to RA standards. Berne does not apparently under go any academic oversight. There's been strong evidence presented that Berne doesn't even follow their set policies and requirements. The quality of a Berne degree is well open to question. He also like to play games by implying RA equivalence but denying that he has done so. The reason I believe he has done this is that this is where the rubber meets the road. This is where it becomes obvious that a Berne degree is NOT equivalent to an RA degree. You can dance around the issue all you want Dean, but apparently even you recognize that a Berne degree is not equivalent to RA or you wouldn't be trying to sidestep that issue.

 

Berne operates in and from New Hampshire. It is not licensed to do so in that state (or any other). It is not accredited by its regional association. Everything else is quibbling.

(Dennis: No disrespect intended regarding the discussion of ODA. I just think that it is a narrow issue affecting almost nothing regarding Berne or any other schools it lists. Darris could prevail re: ODA and it would change nothing about the legitimacy of Berne.)

 

Rich, I just made a smart-alec comment - you can just ignore it.

The point I was making was that RA is irrelevant. Meeting the standard of an unaccredited but licensed Oregon school is enough.

Does Oregon have the best unaccredited schools in your country, equivalent to RA, or is somebody doing some empire building?

 

OK then, let's look at the actual wording of the statute:

348.596 Purpose of ORS 348.594 to 348.615. It is the purpose of ORS 348.594 to 348.615 to provide for the protection of the citizens of Oregon and their post-secondary schools by ensuring the quality of higher education and preserving the integrity of an academic degree as a public credential. [1997 c.652 §9; 1999 c.59 §94]

...

348.609 Misrepresentation of possession of academic degree; complaints; civil penalties; rules.

(1) No person who has been warned by the Oregon Student Assistance Commission, through the Office of Degree Authorization, to cease and desist shall claim or represent that the person possesses any academic degree unless the degree has been awarded to or conferred upon the person by a school that:      

(a) Has accreditation recognized by the United States Department of Education or the foreign equivalent of such accreditation;      

(b) Has been approved by the Oregon Student Assistance Commission through the Office of Degree Authorization to offer and confer degrees in Oregon;
     
(c) Is described in ORS 348.594 (2); or      

(d) Is located in the United States and has been found by the commission to meet standards of academic quality comparable to those of an institution located in the United States that has accreditation, recognized by the United States Department of Education, to offer degrees of the type and level claimed by the person.      

(2) The Oregon Student Assistance Commission shall adopt, by rule, standards and procedures for responding to complaints about degree claims and for validation of degree claims. Failure of a person to provide documentation of a claimed degree shall be prima facie evidence that the claim of such person to such degree is a violation of this section.
     
(3)(a) The Oregon Student Assistance Commission, through the Office of Degree Authorization, may cause a civil suit to be instituted in the circuit court for legal or equitable remedies, including injunctive relief, to ensure compliance with this section. The commission may recover attorney fees and court costs for any such action.
     
(b) The commission shall adopt a schedule of civil penalties for violations of this section. A civil penalty shall not exceed $1,000 per violation.
     
(c) In addition to any action or penalty provided by law, any person who violates this section shall incur a civil penalty in an amount prescribed by the schedule adopted by the commission. Any civil penalty imposed under this subsection shall be imposed in the manner provided in ORS 183.090. All penalties recovered under this subsection shall be paid into the State Treasury and credited to the General Fund. [1997 c.652 §12; 2001 c.454 §1]


http://www.leg.state.or.us/ors/348.html

The statute's intent is to ensure the quality of higher education and the integrity of academic degrees. It sets the necessary quality standard at US Department of Education recognized accreditation. It states that foreign institutions must meet standards equivalent to such accreditation.

The Oregon rules read, in relevant part:

(6) "Accredited" means fully accredited and approved to offer degrees at the specified level by an agency or association recognized as an accreditor by the U.S. Secretary of Education, under the 1965 Higher Education Act as amended at the time of recognition, or having candidacy status with such an accrediting agency or association whose pre-accreditation is also recognized specifically for HEA purposes by the Secretary of Education.

(7) "Foreign equivalent of such accreditation" means authorization by a non-U.S. government found by ODA to have standards at least as stringent as those required by U.S. approved accrediting agencies at the same degree level. This determination may be made through one or more of the following methods at ODA's discretion:

(a) Direct investigation of foreign standards;

(b) Reliance on an evaluation and determination made by the National Association of Collegiate Registrars and Admissions Officers; or

(c) Evaluation of the transferability of courses and degrees earned in the foreign country to accredited Oregon institutions at similar degree levels.

http://arcweb.sos.state.or.us/rules/OARS_500/OAR_583/583_050.html

Perhaps you would like to explain to us how the ODA's interpretation is "ludicrous". It certainly seems consistent with both the letter and the intent of the statute.

 

I believe that you are misrepresenting Oregon approval standards. You can read the rules concerning OR-approval here:

http://arcweb.sos.state.or.us/rules/OARS_500/OAR_583/583_030.html

I just posted both the relevant statute and the relevant rules generated in accordance with the statute. The requirement that out-of-state schools have US DoEd recognized accreditation or its foreign equivalent is explicitly written into the statute itself.

 

You mean I am wrong again?


Legislation provides for rules for:

standards and procedures

(1) for responding to complaints about degree claims

(2) for validation of degree claims

The rules then go on to redefine terms in the legislation going beyond response to complaint and validation. There is no authority to define "the foreign equivalent of such accreditation"

The validation of degree claims would involve taking steps to determine whether the degree has "the foreign equivalent of such accreditation" in its normal usage and it would appear that Berne does.

This is all chicken crap, isn't it?

 

Gentlemen, please!

I don't yet KNOW if it is all "chicken crap".

I agree that the regs seem to give effect to the statute but whether ODA has exceeded its authority as an administrative office is something that only the Oregon COURTS can decide.

I started this thread by observing precisely this: The Courts haven't said a word thus far.

I found, and continue to find, two interesting points:

1) The ODA has a nice test case in Dr. Darris and they don't seem to be pursuing it. (I suspect I know why.)

2) The ODA act does not create a crime under Oregon law. I wonder why? (I could GUESS but I really don't know.)

Nosborne, JD (JSD maybe someday?)