Online Masters to Brick and Mortar PhD, is it possible?

Discussion in 'Online & DL Teaching' started by ANDames, Nov 16, 2011.

  1. Randell1234

    Randell1234 Moderator

    Is it possible you were rejected for other reason? I was thinking of applying to USFs PhD program but then that outcome would not support your theory since my MS was from Touro University International [Branch Campus of Touro College] - a non-profit school with a physical campus.
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 18, 2011
  2. cookderosa

    cookderosa Resident Chef

    I can't find the post where you said anything like that, maybe it was another thread? Cuz, I'm a fan of reading alll the words. In any event, I wish you the best.
  3. mark74

    mark74 New Member

    Before worrying about a Master's degree, I think you should focus all of your efforts on improving your GRE scores. There are a couple of reasons for this:

    1) I think you need to consider the possibility that you are not going to be able to improve the scores to an acceptable level. The scores you posted are extremely low (honestly, they are very low even for not preparing at all or understanding the calculator rules). It is not hard to make some improvement with quality study for the GRE, but the type of improvement you need is going to be very difficult. There are minimum scores that schools look for and if you are unable to get to them, this probably is not going to work out. This is particularly true given your weak academic record. I really think it is in your best interest to find out whether you can improve these scores enough prior to spending your time and money pursuing the MS (unless you want to do it regardless of the PhD working out).

    2) A very high GRE score might help you get into a better MS program now.

    I don't see any value in getting a for profit MS from Phoenix or Walden for the purpose of applying to PhD programs at the schools you mentioned. I actually think that will hurt your chance of admission, even if you get a 4.0. If you can't get into a better MS program, before going the online/for-profit MS route, I think I would look into getting a second BS (probably in psychology, but I would research what the best majors for psych PhD programs are) from the most reputable non-profit B&M school you can get into and focus on completing that program with a very high GPA.
  4. bazonkers

    bazonkers New Member

    Post #5 in this thread.
  5. cookderosa

    cookderosa Resident Chef

    Thanks, I missed it. I also missed that his dad won't let him register at a CC. I so would have rather jumped on that, oh well. I still wish him the best.
  6. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    I always wondered if in this forum you have people being paid by internet only DETC and RA schools judging by the amount of people that firmly believe that these programs would help them land a CEO position, become a full time professor at a B&M school, get into a top school, etc.

    If these programs were equivalent to traditional programs at B&M schools and lead to top careers, why would people care about writing GRE and GMAT exams and do programs at better schools?

    It is surprising the amount of people that wants to spend little money in their education, finish their education in record time, avoid inconvenient invigilated exams, no GMATs and GREs, no publication requirements, etc but at the same time they want to be able to become CEOs, tenure track faculty, etc.
  7. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    I thought you were done with school. If you have already a PhD, you should have no problem getting admitted into another PhD program even if your first PhD is from an online school.

    PhD admissions can be competitive at some faculties but not at all, if you apply for a PhD in Finance at Harvard you might expect some competition but if you apply for a PhD in Operations Management at a good B&M school you might not have competition at all.

    The bottom line with admission is ability to do research, even if your degree is not from a top school but you have a good publication record, you should be able to get admitted.
  8. Randell1234

    Randell1234 Moderator

    Great point, I know of someone with a masters from Jones University International and they got into a B&M PhD program. I think blanket statement like "never" or "always" are setting you up to be wrong...but not always :hypnotized:
  9. Cyber

    Cyber New Member

    Randell, let me see if I understand your point using the following scenario. You enroll in a school when it was regionally accredited. When you graduate, the school lost regional accreditation and is now accredited by DETC. Is your degree regionally accredited? The answer is no. Except your degree has Touro College written somewhere on your certificate or transcript, then it is not a Touro College degree, even if you got into Touro University International when it was still under Touro College.

    Also, you can try to request your MS in IT Management transcripts from Trident University International and see what options you have. FYI, I graduate while it was TUI, but an attempt to request my transcript right now only shows Trident University International. Check and see for yourself (not that anything is wrong if I am right or your degree is now a Trident degree).
  10. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

    I have to disagree; if the school was RA at the time of degree conferral, IMO it's forever an RA degree.

    If I earned a degree from the now-closed Bradford College (RA in its time), does my degree become unaccredited once the school closed, and therefore is no longer regionally accredited?
  11. Randell1234

    Randell1234 Moderator

    I enrolled at Touro University International [Branch Campus of Touro College] in 2003 and graduated 16 months later in 2004. They sold off in 2007. I recently requested my MS-ITM (2004) and it came on Touro University International [Branch Campus of Touro College] paper and is also listed as such on My MBA is from Trident. When I completed it I had to option to have TUI or Trident since I enrolled when it was TUI but graduated when it was Trident. One more thing - when you request the transcript I thought you had an option to pick TUI or Trident as the letter head.

    As far as your question - You enroll in a school when it was regionally accredited. When you graduate, the school lost regional accreditation and is now accredited by DETC. Is your degree regionally accredited? The answer is no. I would have to agree. I graduated from CCU when it was not accreditied but then a few years later they earned DETC accreditiation. Does that mean my CCU degrees are accreditied - no. Now if you mean you graduated when it was accredited and they later lost accreditiation or closed the answer is: you have an accreditied degree. If all issued accredited degrees "lost accredition" if a school lost accreditiation that would mean 1,000's of degree would be recalled when a school closes or loses it. That does not make sense.
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 20, 2011
  12. Shawn Ambrose

    Shawn Ambrose New Member

    I'm going to toss a unconventional approach to the OP...a 2nd bachelors degree in Psych or related field at a BM school.

    If the PhD program you desire do not require the masters degree but you need a strong GPA. Obtain a 2nd bachelors, obtain the 4.0 at the undergrad level, study your butt off for the GRE and then apply to the program you want.

    I completed 12 undergrad business credits at the University of Akron before formal application to their MBA program, because I had a 2.3 undergrad GPA.

    Good luck!

  13. bazonkers

    bazonkers New Member

    I would have thought the opposite. I figured most schools would say you already have a PhD, why should we assign our faculty to a dissertation committee for someone that already knows how to do PhD level research and writing. Plus, I'd imagine that many of the courses would be redundant even if the programs are different.
  14. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

    While double Ph.D.'s aren't common, double Master's far, I've taken 2 graduate level Research Methods courses, 2 graduate level Statistics courses, 2 graduate level Criminology courses, and I have even more redundancy in my future.
  15. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    You are right if the second PhD is in the same field but not in a different field. You can do a PhD in Accounting and then do a second one in Human Resources. The first PhD is enough proof that you can do independent research so it will help to be admitted into a second PhD.

    I really don't see why you would want to do this but it is possible. I have seen people that finish a DBA then go for a PhD in Business and get accepted.

    So you can add the second PhD as a power of 2.
    Randell would be Randell PhD
  16. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    There are many PhD programs that hardly get any students. I'm sure that if you are open to go anywhere, you can get admission.
    The bottom line is the GMAT or GRE, if you can score well in these exams then the degree granting institution shouldn't matter much as long as it is RA accredited.

    Our admissions office only requires the degree to be RA for degrees granted in the US. We recommend PhD students admission based on GMAT results and potential for research. Many of the students we admit have degrees from places we cannot even pronounce, our admissions office checks that these schools are legit but I would be surprised if they can differentiate between Jones International and Idaho State, both would work for admissions for graduate school.

    The reality is that not many students are willing to do PhDs, this type of program requires at least 5 years of full time study and have limited job prospects and salaries approaching to those you can get with a BS. Most engineers or accountants make already more than 100K with a BS so why would you want to do a PhD just to make less after graduation?

    The massive enrollment that for profits have are not the case for B&M schools, people are willing to do part time PhD programs but almost nobody is willing to do a full time PhD.
  17. Randell1234

    Randell1234 Moderator

    Instead of counting on opinion I called SACS. They tend to agree with you! If it was accreditied when issued it is accreditied forever.
  18. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

    I thought there was a section on that in the last BG, but I wasn't able to find it, and I was too lazy to call SACS.
  19. ANDames

    ANDames New Member

    Thank you! I can tell that you read all of my posts as opposed to responding to a post that already misinterpreted what I said.

    Walden is a RA university, hence, if I did a Master's there (which has not been done yet), it should not be difficult to gain admission to a B&M PhD program.

    I appreciate everyone's assistance and opinions! Thanks again!
  20. truckie270

    truckie270 New Member

    I think you are severely underestimating the difficulty of getting into a B&M PhD program, especially if you have a low GRE score.

    Good luck to you.

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