Oceania University of Medicine (Online and In Person Clinicals)

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by Garp, Mar 17, 2020.

Loading...
  1. Garp

    Garp Member

    It is interesting in the current Covid-19 crisis that many or most schools are transitioning to online learning and this includes medical schools. Many people scoffed at the idea of online medical education with in person clinicals and yet perhaps Oceania was simply ahead of the curve. I know Walden and others have been using that model with Nurse Practitioner programs.

    Online learning still has a stigma in certain sectors that is less about quantifiable issues and more about perception. This crisis if long enough may change some of those approaches.
     
  2. Marcus Aurelius

    Marcus Aurelius Active Member

    There are now many online nurse practitioner programs. If they can make it work, there's no reason why the academic part of medical school can't be online, too. I still believe in-person is best for learning medical skills (like sewing wounds and patient assessments).
     
  3. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    Agreed. As far as I know, any legitimate medical school offering online programs be it for PA or MD education, mandates in-person clinicals. The 3 or so online medical schools that turn out MDs all mandate in-person clinicals.
     
  4. copper

    copper Member


    I'm skeptical about the quality of Nurse practitioners that learned online. In my experience, it's a mixed bag of clinical competency. I'm sorry, but there are numerous schools offering online NP programs and it seems like the quality is almost diploma millish! I know they have upped the clinical hours to 1000, hopefully that helps! Don't get me wrong, I believe online learning is the "new paradigm" but too many for profit schools are capitalizing on it and offer a poor product! I think Hybrid is a good compromise offering mixed on campus with the power of online learning and obviously hands on clinical. Calling it "online" is not really accurate. My friends daughter is in a US medical school (MD) and a lot of the coursework is currently being taught online because of COVID19. Online is simply another tool but unfortunately, there are many schools that market their garbage product.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2020
  5. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator Staff Member

    I am not in the medical field but I would be interested in having you show us one of these “garbage” NP programs.
     
    SteveFoerster likes this.
  6. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    I don't think it's fair to center it as another evil of the for-profit sector, because even though it's possible there are far more for-profit nursing programs than non-profit, online nursing programs are the hot thing that it seems everybody is looking to offer, non-profit and for-profit alike. My skepticism of NP programs has more to do with my lack of faith that NPs are sufficiently trained to work independently and I'm not alone on that skepticism at all.

    I've read on a number of occasions RN's say that their BSN training was practically worthless because as an experienced RN they already knew most of the information and what they didn't know wasn't particularly useful in real-world practice. Would some say the same about their DNP programs? Maybe, but sometimes that's held back by a person's desire not to down their own accomplishment of getting a doctorate.
     
  7. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator Staff Member

    OK but somewhere in there you made a jump from NP programs to DNP programs. They're not the same thing, are they?
     
  8. copper

    copper Member

    I would rather discuss quality schools. Here are a few 100% online NP schools Walden, Grand Canyon, Maryville, Chamberlain, Kaplan that pump out NPs like a factory mill. I wouldn't trust their graduates to prescribe Amoxicillin! Overall, State Universities with medical facilities staffed with tenured professors and practicing clinicians produce fine graduates/clinicians. Just my opinion though and I am sure there are exceptions.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2020
  9. AsianStew

    AsianStew Active Member

    Hmm, I just checked their tuition, and added it up (somewhat quickly so this maybe a rough estimate). If you get admitted into their MD program, total cost will be around $100K which isn't too bad. For me, I don't have that kind of money, so... back to the drawing board. Actually, back to homework and studying...
     
  10. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator Staff Member

    OK, but I think it was you that brought it up.

    I only looked at Walden. Their program is not only Regionally Accredited but also professionally accredited. They say that the are the #1 provider of advanced nursing degrees in the U.S. so they're obviously popular and people clearly complete the program. It's hard to see that as a bad thing.
     
    SteveFoerster likes this.
  11. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    I don't see any actual conflict there given that my main point is about skepticism of NP programs irrespective of degree level. But I would say a Doctor of Nursing Practice program is a Nursing Practice program, same subject, so in that sense they are the same thing except that the degree levels can be different.
     
  12. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    I believe Maryville is a non-profit even though they market like a for-profit is stereotypically (but not necessarily inaccurately) viewed as marketing, and Kaplan is dead (but can be seen as still living, just as a zombie under Purdue's Global brand).

    But I think your post indirectly raises an interesting question about testing and licensing and determining adequacy. If people are able to complete their programs and pass all of the necessary licensing tests and requirements to reach practice, what more would you personally need to see in order for them to gain your trust?
     
  13. copper

    copper Member

    Seriously? You really believe an online trained NP compares to a University Hospital trained medical provider? Please do not let the white lab coat fool you! You have no idea the resources available at a fully funded brick and mortar Research University Hospital! I suspect Oceania is another big joke and any idiot that spends a $100k on an offshore online medical school probably couldn’t get accepted to a US school in the first place!
     
  14. Garp

    Garp Member

    Copper, the online NP merely does the coursework online and the clinicals are done at hospitals, etc. Same with Oceania and now every medical school.

    Is Oceania a joke? No. It is accredited and allows students to become doctors in the US and Australia (and elsewhere). It is very expensive and has high attrition rates (according to SDN). Is it a first choice? I highly doubt it. They seem to deal with slightly older people and those with medical backgrounds (nurses, NPs and PAs). They have agreements with some US places for clinical rotations. There have been people become US doctors but it is a hard slog up hill. One man posted about his wife's journey. It took longer, cost far more and required a huge amount of effort but she did match for residency.

    The attrition rate at most US schools is not bad. The attrition rate at Carribean schools can be high. The problem with that is not only crushed dreams but potentially large students loans without the MD income to pay them back.

     
  15. copper

    copper Member


    I've been in healthcare for 25 years and there are no shortcuts! I've seen these online NP students and foreign MD students struggling to get placed in US clinicals with board certified physicians. Some have even offered money to Mentors to get the time they need to pass their online course. The fact is, they usually have the students stand there and observe and get very little hands on experience because the Physicians don't want to lose their paying patients. Patients in private practice clinics is the bread and butter for the Physician and taking on a student is more or less an inconvenience. University Hospitals are set up as teaching hospitals and patients are very much aware of that! In addition, the University has clinical rotations integrated into the program unlike online schools where the student has to arrange clinicals with Uncle Joe. Trust me, if you are considering becoming a medical provider, go to a Brick and Mortar University with a Hospital and ancillary clinics. You will be light years ahead and better prepared and it may even cost less tuition.
     
  16. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator Staff Member

    One of the things that is true on this board is that we are relatively comfortable with the concept of "levels of goodness." Most people would agree that a degree from Fort Hays State University is good but that a degree from Harvard is better. We have multiple ranking systems and the underlying idea is that some schools are better than others. The idea that a Nursing program that is attached to a large teaching hospital is "good" is not a stretch for anyone. We start to have a little problem with the black and white thinking that says that anything other than that is "garbage." This is especially true when the only evidence presented is a small set of vague anecdotes. Your preferred program, the university teaching hospital, might be the ideal sort of set up but all the accreditors disagree with you about the programs you described so negatively. So do all the employers, including your employer. Perhaps you should go to your HR department and explain to them that they're hiring a lot of substandard nurses. I, for one, believe that there are many knowledgeable and skilled nurses coming out of the schools you listed (Walden, etc.) just as there are a few clunkers coming out of a place like UMass Medical School.
     
    Marcus Aurelius likes this.
  17. copper

    copper Member

    If the NP can get a one to two year post graduate fellowship, undoubtedly, proficiency and clinical decision making soars regardless of where they went to school. However, in my opinion, the Lion’s share of NPs trained with 500 to a 1000 hours of clinical training are grossly unprepared for unsupervised “Independent practice” even though many State licensing boards allow it! I’m sorry if you all disagree with me but these online NP schools are pumping out graduates that are not adequately trained for the scope of practice their license allows!

    For example, some States require Psychiatric NPs receive 2000 to 4000 hours of post graduate supervision before independent practice. Other States will allow a Psych NP from an online 500 hour program to practice independently with full scope. I mean what the hell? There appears to be no standardization or consensus across the country for these independent providers.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2020
  18. copper

    copper Member

    Additionally, don’t confuse accreditation with patient protection! Accreditation means the institution has met the minimum academic standard. It is a scam and outright scary to see an RN with a MSN go to an online post graduate certificate program with as few as 500 hours of clinical training and be granted full independent medical practice by many States! You may be able to convince me there are a few brilliant nurses out there that can meet the challenge but not the thousands of “advanced nurses” these online factory mills are pumping out!
     
  19. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator Staff Member

    It's not just us disagreeing with you. It's everyone. Everyone that matters, at least.

    Of course this is true. It is state law that determines these matters and, no surprise, different states have different standards. We've been talking about this in regards to Counseling degrees for years.
     
  20. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    Still interested in your thoughts on this. I actually agree with having reservations about NP programs leading to independent practice for a number of reasons, but for me that concern stays whether it's from an online or offline program.

    If I can piece together some of the things you've said in newer posts, your concern seems to be that there isn't much actual hands-on training and clinical hours? That sounds like a very valid concern. Is this a bigger concern for you than an NP program being online or from a for-profit school? And do we know if what you're concerned about is common across the board for all schools offering NP programs, or do you see it as just an online or for-profit issue? If so, then I would say the concern is even more valid, but how can we know for sure?
     

Share This Page