NovaSE Criminal Justice PhD

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by JLJ, Jan 9, 2018.

  1. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    This is an astounding statement. "Real world" work of an R1 professor is all about scholarly output; teaching undergrads is secondary concern. Why would rejecting a man with no discernible aptitude for scholarship mean the department is "out of touch"? Criminal justice is an arts and sciences discipline, not branch of policing. Besides, honestly, a university can't pay Bratton what he could get in private sector, anyway. It is very possible he can get a job at a high profile school (almost certainly in a "clinical" position, not regular TT); it is also very possible he would be rejected at several other schools if he applies. I will concede this: if he would complete a Nova PhD, he'd be competitive at higher-tier schools than regular Nova grad would. A PhD is evidence of scholarly training (and dissertation shows ability to produce "contribution to knowledge"), while celebrity in the field could help overcome lack of "prestige". Just like sanantone said a great publication record could.

    Correct me if I'm wrong: this was part of a graduate programme, not police academy? So, what's your point again?
  2. Zealot4Truth

    Zealot4Truth New Member

    Ok...I figured I would pipe into this conversation...considering it appears I may be the only person responding who actually holds a PhD in Criminal Justice from Nova Southeastern University. For the record, I am also a career law enforcement officer (over 25 years, currently serving in a supervisory position with a federal law enforcement agency). That being said, I have found absolutely zero bias for my PhD being from Nova. On the contrary, I had two schools wanting to hire me before I even defended my dissertation. I teach for multiple universities online at the moment (graduate and undergraduate levels, including two PhD programs), which are very respectable schools.

    All the naysayers can give their opinion, but the bottom line is that there are three key factors that I have found are very important: 1. non-profit versus for profit, 2. admission requirements for the program, 3. cohorts. Obviously, Nova is an enormous non-profit, brick and mortar school in southern Florida. It has a respected medical school, pharmacology school, law school, marine biology school, among many many others. It also has some of the strictest admission requirements of any online PhD program. On top of that, it only accepts a set number of students per year (I happened to be in the initial cohort of I believe 17 students). The items I have listed here reflect the rigidness and overall efficacy of the program, which is why I have found they are the most important factors relating to the value of a degree from that particular program or institution.

    So, with that being said, as I have advanced in the academic community, I have found that while the so-called 'pedigree' is important, it is not the end all be all.

    I plan on finishing my government career (4 years remaining till full retirement at an early age), and then teaching full time for a four-year institution. I do not anticipate having any difficulty getting a job.

    Thanks for listening.
  3. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    There are two things I have gathered from your post.

    1. You do not have a tenure-track position yet, so you haven't disproven anything there. Expecting is different from doing.

    2. You said that you have job offers from two respectable institutions that I'm assuming you wish not to name for whatever reason. "Respectable" is a vague term. You also didn't mention whether or not those job offers were for tenure-track positions. Regardless, there are a lot of graduates from unranked but respectable institutions who teach at other unranked but respectable institutions. Being unranked doesn't mean that the school is not respectable. You didn't say that you received job offers from institutions ranked in criminology, which is where this discussion went. As I have repeated several times on this forum, graduates from Texas State University had no problem with finding jobs before the school was ranked (it now is) because most schools with criminal justice and criminology programs are not ranked. However, none of them received job offers from ranked criminology institutions, at the time, even though about half of the students were criminal justice professionals with years of experience.

    If you receive a job offer for a tenure-track position from a Top 20 or even Top 30 criminology/criminal justice program, please let us know. I can't see how you can tell whether or not there's bias if you aren't even on the job market for a TT position. On the other hand, anyone can go to the websites of all the top criminology schools and see how many Nova Southeastern and similar graduates they currently have in TT positions.

    There is bias in hiring for academic positions, and the stats back this up. Refer to the thread linked below.
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2019
  4. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    I found a supervisory federal law enforcement officer on LinkedIn with a PhD in CJ from Nova Southeastern University. He currently teaches online at three for-profit universities and one non-profit university that isn't known for criminal justice and has no program-specific rankings. I could be wrong, but the non-profit school appears to only have undergraduate programs on campus, and their graduate programs are all primarily online. It definitely isn't a research institution; it's categorized by U.S. News as a regional university, but the school calls itself a liberal arts college. One of the for-profit schools he teaches at had many accreditation and legal problems a few years ago, so I'm not sure it falls into the respectable category.

    Edit: I wasn't searching for any forum members. I was just curious to see where Nova Southeastern graduates are currently working and coincidentally came across a member here.
  5. Steve Levicoff

    Steve Levicoff Well-Known Member

    Whoa . . . Typical response from sanantone: argumentative, instigating, patronizing, condescending, challenging, etc.

    The other difference between sanantone and Zealot4Truth: He has a Ph.D. in C.J. (from a major and very reputable university), and she does not.

    Perhaps, if sanantone ever finishes her Ph.D., she'll have learned the art of mellow. In the meantime, there's nothing worse than a Ph.D. wanna-be who thinks he or she is an expert.
    Zealot4Truth likes this.
  6. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    Once again, Steve is all emotion and no facts or logic.

    Yes, Steve, most of my cohort is not finished. Most of the cohort after mine is also not finished even though most of them finished their coursework as full-time students. In case you forgot, I am not in an online program at Union, Northcentral, Capella, Walden, and the like. It's not a fancy school, but it's traditional and not designed to be a quick degree for non-traditional students and future truck drivers. It is ranked in criminology, and I'll admit that I'm happy about that.

    I'm just stating facts about somewhat misleading and vague statements. As every long-time member knows, Steve bashes for-profit colleges all the time.
  7. Steve Levicoff

    Steve Levicoff Well-Known Member

    Which brings up the same difference between you and me - like Zealot4Truth, I have a Ph.D. And you don't.

    There ya go again, trashing truckers because you have no substantive argument. And while Union may have its faults (and I have been the first to point them out), unlike the other schools you mention here, they are not a for-profit.

    Absolutely true. I also bash so-called "online universities." But I've discussed my rationale for those statements in other threads, and see no reason to reiterate them here.

    I also see no reason, other than pointing out sanantone's negative and challenging attitude, to continue this conversation, so I'll let her go ahead and have the last word. One day, she may learn diplomacy and develop the wisdom to not act like a know-it-all.
    Zealot4Truth likes this.
  8. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

    Actually, it also not a bad description of many of your own posts.
    sanantone likes this.
  9. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    Steve, this was a dead thread that was brought back up, obviously, because someone wanted to refute statements made by Stanislav and me. It's not out of the ordinary to express disagreement with someone who is trying to disprove you with no evidence.

    "Bwahahahahahaaaaa" is not rationale, and I remember that you said that you were going to put me on ignore. I guess you can't get over your obsession.

    I have no problem with truck drivers, but most people don't earn doctorates to drive trucks. You, however, have a problem with working doctoral students who take 5, 6, or 7 years to finish a ground program. At the end of the day, even though working Texas State University PhD students are not finishing in 3-4 years, almost all of the ones who want a tenure-track position get one. They are meeting their goals, and that's all that matters whether you're attending school online or on-campus or in a ranked or unranked program.
  10. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    Well, my post was on topic regardless of whether he likes the tone; it's really just fake outrage. Steve wanted to start an off-topic, personal argument like he always does because his hobby is trolling now that he's retired. He's also holding a grudge because I'm one of the few here who doesn't take his bull. As usual, he has nothing valuable or factual to add to the discussion. Maybe we'll get new members here soon, and he'll be busy with making fun of them. Or, maybe he can tell more Holocaust jokes.
  11. Zealot4Truth

    Zealot4Truth New Member

    Sanantone - it is apparent you get caught up in the 'tenure track' and 'ranked' discussion. For most normal people, myself included, those are non-important things. I will be able to retire fully at age 48, collect a good retirement, and get a job at just about any normal (maybe even non-ranked, who cares?) 4 year institution I want. I can select a location that is quiet, peaceful, and enjoyable. Then I will be fat and happy, collecting retirement and a full time job income (which even non-tenure track will be respectable), working 2 miles from my home. I will guess that I will not have a problem getting a tenure track position, should I pursue it; but again, for your argument, it may not be at a 'ranked' school. As I have noted, that is irrelevant to me. What I described above, to me, is what it is all about. So you can bash all you want, but I am confident I am focused on what is important. To be honest, a school like Liberty would be absolutely perfect for me. Lynchburg, VA is a beautiful location and I could see myself settling in well there.

    Maybe when you complete your degree (if you do and successfully defend a dissertation), then you will get that 'tenure' position at a 'ranked' school. Good luck, I wish you the best.
  12. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    If those are your goals, then I'm sure you'll do just fine. I was just clarifying that the arguments you were responding to aren't about whether or not Nova will get you a job. I, specifically, said that graduates of unranked programs would likely get a job. The arguments were about what kind of job you can get. You took it as bashing of Nova, which it was not.

    My program was unranked when I started, so I had no unrealistic expectations about where I could be hired. When our doctoral program coordinator gave us the reality check that we would not get jobs in ranked crimology, criminal justice, or sociology departments, we weren't offended. It was the truth, even for the student who was a police chief. That police chief did drop out. We've had a lot of working professionals drop out, which is why the program started focusing on admitting full-time students. I advised the police chief to look at various online programs because finishing is better than nothing if his goal is to teach full-time in retirement.

    I have no interest in teaching. My goal is to do applied research with a think tank or with the government.

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