NJ Governor wants to merge TESC into Rutgers

Discussion in 'Political Discussions' started by scaredrain, Mar 17, 2010.

  1. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

    You can't really expect that anyone on this board knows the answer to that question. It's unlikely at this point that even the people at TESC know the answer to that question.
  2. In fairness, there are few (if any) other options that might pull the state out of the "death spiral" at this point. The only sector that's growing in New Jersey is the public sector, with budget deficits exceeding those of most COUNTRIES and with those industries that are able to either a) heading for the hills or b) merely sending their work there. That just isn't a viable model. When you can't squeeze any more out of your tax base, the only answer is to cut spending.

    That I dislike this particular aspect of the slashing & burning doesn't mean that it's the wrong thing to do from a fiscal standpoint.
  3. Griffin

    Griffin Crazy About Psychology

    I do agree with many of the cuts and I even agree with a TESC budget cut, but it's the added malarkey that drives me nuts. Rutgers will probably raise it's own tuition to cover it's own cuts, but TESC doesn't appear to be given that option. Instead they have to go through the rigmarole of arguing against the merger proposition and discussing the matter with RU, all of which I'm sure costs skads of money.

    As someone else pointed out, they'd only have to raise prices by about $350 per student per year in order to break even, so cutting their budget seems fairly reasonable. Now I do think that the state library should have it's own budget, but TESC operates it so I guess that's mostly semantics.

    I emailed Rutgers directly asking as a current TESC student and here is their response:
  4. TMW2009

    TMW2009 New Member

    The biggest problem for TESC at this point is how inefficiently they operate. I've heard horror stories about how it can take them 4-8 weeks to enter in credit after they receive it (from tests), horrible customer service that makes a root canal look enjoyable, and advisors that give incorrect advice left and right.

    As Geezer over on the Instantcert forums mentioned, Excelsior serves around twice the students as TESC per year, and they do it efficiently enough to come out with a $ surplus on a yearly basis, to the tune of $2-7 million. Whereas TESC is only able to pay for 80% of its costs before needing state money.

    TESC is doing something wrong... And I think its caught up with them.
  5. taylor

    taylor New Member

  6. CalDog

    CalDog New Member

    Correct me if this is not right, but isn't TESC's tuition significantly lower than Excelsior's -- particularly given that most TESC students pay discounted in-state or military rates?

    An NJ resident can get 36 TESC credits a year for $4,695, or $130/credit, for the first year of study. And in the second year, it drops to $3,910, or $109/credit.

    How does Excelsior tuition compare? Excelsior is private, so they charge whatever they want. TESC, as a state institution, may have a lot less flexibility.
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 22, 2010
  7. cookderosa

    cookderosa Resident Chef


    And before people start saying how much cheaper EC is, you have to factor in the 27 FEMA credits that are completely FREE at TESC. So, for any student, that's about $5000 off the overall cost (if they choose to use it).
  8. GeneralSnus

    GeneralSnus Member

    Keep in mind too that according to the Inside Higher Ed article, TESC also oversees the State Library and State Museum. I'm not sure if those operating funds are separate or all part of TESC's budget.
  9. Maniac Craniac

    Maniac Craniac Moderator Staff Member

    Excelsior gives whopping amounts of credit for GRE subject exams. You could, in theory, take 3 of them and obtain 90 credits for about $450 :eek:. I'm not sure if you could take 4 of them and still meet all of their General Education requirements without taking a few CLEPs, but that still is a boatload of credit for a minimal price. The enrollment fee for Excelsior is also HALF the cost of that of TESC (even less if you take a large amount of your credits through Excelsior's courses). Also, the annual student services fee for Excelsior is 1/4 of that of TESC.
  10. Maniac Craniac

    Maniac Craniac Moderator Staff Member

    Not so!!! According to: http://www.4icu.org/top200/

    Rutgers ranks higher than Princeton, Northwestern and Georgetown. :rolleyes:
  11. Alissa

    Alissa New Member

    This $5000 savings is only true if a person would fill their free electives with actual classes at TESC otherwise. If they use CLEPs and DSSTs instead, using fema only saves about $800. Since TESC's fees are about $1000 more than Excelsior's or Charter Oak's anyway, the fema credits just help TESC students break even with what EC and COSC students would pay anyway if they were all testing out. All this is only if they do not have all their free electives full already with credits already earned before they enrolled.

    Fema just makes the cost of TESC about the same as COSC or EC, for exam-takers.

    TESC is often cheaper for NJ residents, though.

    Cost comparison thread which details how to do what Maniac Cranial just described at EC with GREs: http://www.degreeforum.net/excelsior-thomas-edison-charter-oak-specific/6781-cost-analysis-big-3-breakdown.html
  12. CalDog

    CalDog New Member

    You could, in theory. But in practice, I doubt that this happens much, if at all.

    GREs are hard. For example, Cal Poly -- which is one of the top B&M public universities in California -- requires students to score 650 on the Biology GRE in order to qualify for a Master's degree. And a score of 650 is not the 80th percentile, which is what Excelsior requires for the theoretical maximum of 30 credits.

    In other words, if you can get 30 biology credits from Excelsior from your performance on the Biology GRE exam, you are performing at a level above that expected by a very respectable B&M state university for Master's-level biology students.

    I could be wrong, but I find it difficult to believe that loads of Excelsior students are racking lots of cheap credits by taking multiple GRE subject exams.
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 23, 2010
  13. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    They used to be even more generous. These days, they have a sliding scale of credit earned based on your score, up to 30 s.h. Back in the day, it was 39 s.h., and it was all-or-nothing. You had to score in the 33rd percentile or above to get the credit. (I did it to earn a 2nd bachelor's. My score would have netted just 21 s.h. by today's standards.)
  14. Maniac Craniac

    Maniac Craniac Moderator Staff Member

    I can do it, just you watch :cool:
  15. Griffin

    Griffin Crazy About Psychology

    It's not impossible, just improbable for most undergrads to rank above the 80th percentile. I'll have to get into that territory for the Psyc GRE to get into a good doctoral program, but it will take months of study for example. Can't use it for my degree req's though, too bad so sad.
  16. John Bear

    John Bear Senior Member

    Re earning 30 semester hours from a GRE exam at Excelsior, caldog writes, "You could, in theory. But in practice, I doubt that this happens much, if at all."

    Back when, as Rich points out, it was 39 units, I used to hear from 5 to 10 readers each year, telling me they had completed their Bachelor's by passing three GREs and, typically, one CLEP for 6 units.

    I once went to Little Rock to appear in a 30-minute local television special on distance degrees. On the program were 4 or 5 Little Rockers who had done this, one of them (a National Guard Sergeant) having taken and passed all three on the same weekend. (They used to be given every Saturday and Sunday morning and afternoon in Washington.)
  17. Maniac Craniac

    Maniac Craniac Moderator Staff Member

    I like tests and tend to do well on them. Especially multiple choice. I know not a lick of psychology, but have already looked at dozens of sample GRE questions. In one sitting, I tried a bunch of questions and got them all right, without understanding what any of them were actually asking (similarly, I took and passed the Information Systems CLEP with a very high score, without having studied and without understanding more than 5% of the questions). A friend of mine took a psych class and quizzed me by asking me some of the questions he had been tested on. I got almost all of them right. In fact, I would have done better than he did, and I didn't even take the course.

    Testing doesn't phase me. All I need is to get the knowledge. Even so, I won't need all 30 credits, as I expect 7 credits from my Sociology major to crossover into Psychology.

    Really... I'll just stop talkin the talk and get back to you fine people when I've taken it :D
  18. Griffin

    Griffin Crazy About Psychology

    I am pretty jealous, I have to wait several months to take my subject GRE in October. But as Rich points out, standards and services are different now :(

    Testing doesn't phase me either and I actually look forward to the GRE (which makes me a freak, I think). I just don't think that most students could pull off 80th% on three or four GREs. Actually there was quite a hullabaloo on another board where prospective PhDs with severe test anxiety took exception to the GRE requirement of most schools. Not being able to ace a bunch of grad exams doesn't make you an idiot, it more means that you haven't mastered the minutia of 3+ undergrad areas. If you do ace 3, you should go for bachelor's in all of them because you've basically mastered the undergrad-level material.
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 23, 2010
  19. Maniac Craniac

    Maniac Craniac Moderator Staff Member

    Me too! I have several things I need to accomplish first, but I am really looking forward to taking the GRE, most likely next year. I'm trying to decide how many books to read/study and whether it would help to take some free psych courses.

    What was this thread about again? :p
  20. cookderosa

    cookderosa Resident Chef


    Nut-uh. :) Seriously though, you can't consider that an option for 99.99% of the EC students. I'd wonder if there has EVER been a student to use 3 GRE exams.

    EDIT: Reading ahead, I stand corrected! (and wildly impressed)
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 23, 2010

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