NCU was More Rigorous than California State University

Yes, I agree and that's what has me quaking in my boots.

 

The Dissertation Brick Wall

You CAN do it, but it is unlike coursework where you are told what to do. During the dissertation, you're basically on-your-own. The chair will answer a candidate's questions, but ultimately, the candidate is expected to conduct their own research. There is no hand-holding during the dissertation.

The syllabus for coursework is explicit and is a wonderful road map to success, but the dissertation phase provides no such clear-cut road map. This seems to be an unexpected hurdle for most candidates. It's frequently called "the dissertation brick wall" because so many candidates simply walk away from it, even after completing two or three years of coursework that led up to it.

You CAN do it, but it requires a different mindset. Form a plan. Be willing to change it if it's not working. Decide what you want to research (and measure). Obey your chair and treat him well.

 

Thanks for the positive words regarding the rigor of the work and honest words about the customer service.

 

Are you accusing me of being a shill for NCU? I hope I'm reading that wrong. I'm sorry for your terrible experience, it is horrible beyond description to go through all of that and then to be shut down. Didn't they outline their time limit policy in their degree description? They didn't warn you or anything?

That being said, it doesn't change the fact that the academics at NCU are good, as good as Cal State in my experience. What I don't appreciate (this is in no way aimed at you) is how the NCU graduates are sometimes made to feel inferior about their degrees. They deserve our respect and should feel free to proudly display their achievements which, IMO, are to be considered at least equal to a similar degree from Cal State.

 

Thanks, me again, that's good advice. I'm a fast and pretty good writer and I don't need a road map or any hand holding, so I'm hoping I'll be OK. I'll be finished with all but one class by the end of 2012 so it's on the horizon.

 

This is true....a couple of summers ago I took a 9-series doctoral elective during the summer at MSPP because the subject interested me, and I was surprised at how less-than-difficult it was. This was at a B&M school that is both RA and APA-accredited.

My current doctoral classes are very reading and writing intensive, but nothing you can't handle if you plan your time accordingly and don't mind research & writing.

 

Exactly! ...and it is at this phase, NCU is the weakest. The mail-in-your-work-for-grades model works fine until the DIS phase, where more specific guidance and intervention is needed from the chair and committee. My dissertation will be on this very subject.... In a low-contact academic environment, at the doctoral level, a peer group is of enormous benefit to the individual, and more than a few students have benefited from the assistance, guidance and moral support provided by the NCU group at Yahoo. However, even though this group is helpful, one can still get caught up in or fed up by the NCU flailing about and inconsistency.

BTW I am currently enrolled in Aspen's Ed.D program, which is plenty rigorous, IMHO. I am also at UFS, but the pace is slower there, since it is a cohort working to a calendar.

 

Surf D - I do not think that you are a shill, but I think that you were trying to generate a topic of conversation, and you are positively disposed towards NCU.

In response to your question, the 7 year time limit is clearly spelled out, but exceptions are granted. There were no warnings, per se. They just kicked me out at the 6.5 year mark when I asked for an extension.

I did not drag my feet, but ran into stumbling blocks along the way such as lack of guidance from the Chair and programmatic issues. My chair would not submit my CP because he did not think that it was worthy, (so this part dragged on and on for almost a year) yet it passed without significant comment the first time I submitted it. I also needed guidance on my lit review (since I have a multidisciplinary topic). He saw that I was stuck at this phase but did not offer any help. He also was only good at knowing what would not fly at NCU. If I had it to do over again at NCU, I would have: (1) insisted on being allowed to continue in the old program sequence that I started in, rather than being yanked out at the end of the old sequence into the end of an entirely different one, (2) asked for another chair, since I did not resonate well with him, and (3) contacted my chair more for guidance, which would have been more likely if I had done (2). The mail-in-your-work and get graded model does not work at the DIS stage, yet the students remain in this construct mind set.

Perhaps my case could be dismissed with "sour grapes" and "oh, rmm0484 just hates NCU," which is not the case. I am deeply disappointed with its chaos, but I have never uttered a word against its graduates. However, there are reasons for the intensity against NCU here and elsewhere, and this will not be resolved until NCU learns to treat its customers better. As a business major, I often wondered if anyone in the NCU academic leadership had any business acumen or business experience.

......If you make customers unhappy in the physical world, they might each tell 6 friends. If you make customers unhappy on the Internet, they can each tell 6,000 friends." JEFF BEZOS

 

I too ran into difficulties with the concept paper (CP) early on, so I immediately changed it when the chair did not think it was worthy to study. He suggested something entirely different -- so the CP was completely changed early on. Whenever the chair would make a suggestion, I would listen to him, instead of resisting him. I had already learned that I will always be on the short end of a stick if I argue with a college professor, so I learned to acquiesce, even if the professor was wrong i.e. just do what he wants and get the grade and get out. This concept is equally important at the dissertation phase.

The opinions of the chair should always be treated as gold nuggets by the dissertation candidate.

 

You misunderstand the purpose of my post. I took several courses in a PhD program there and sensed that they did not care about their students. After hearing of the troubles others have had, I bailed out of the program wasting several thousand dollars of tuition. I would not recommend their doctoral programs to anyone.

What I'm arguing for are all those people who finished a degree at NCU and are made to feel that their degree is inferior. The fact that the administration is terrible does not make the coursework inferior. The whole purpose of my post, as stated in the last two lines of my original entry, is to support those who have completed a degree there. It is in no way meant to belittle your horrible experience or to generate some kind of positive buzz. So please don't accuse me of an agenda that I clearly do not have.

 

Surf D- fair 'nuff. I do not belittle the NCU degrees, the NCU degrees are not the issue with me. The NCU folks have more than earned them for what many of them had to go through, in addition to the normal doctoral rites of passage.

I did misunderstand you. Since you are a moderator, I thought that you were throwing a topic into the ring to generate some buzz on the topic.

 

He never suggested topics, only what would not work. I did not get a lot of direction from him, personally. I never resisted him, there was nothing to resist......

 

That's why a dissertation is so hard. The student is expected to take the ball and run with it. There is no hand-holding. Absolutely none. If the student doesn't do that, then he stalls; and many universities have time-limits to complete a dissertation; they are removed from the program if they exceed the time-limit. The attrition rate is 50 to 70% at most universities, which crushes many aspiring doctoral students who are never awarded a doctorate. It is a crushing experience for those who don't make it.

 

Agreed. Thanks. :smile:

 

OK, now I'm quaking in my boots again. Geez, just as I was calming down too.

 

I was seriosly considering it mainly because price but thought it was better to go with a government subsidized institution mainly because credibility.

There is no proof that NCU's PhD program is substandard but I think its main weakness is credibility. Many people already have credibility because their work experience and previous credentials so the name of the school for the PhD doesn't matter much but others need a credible institution to go ahead with their careers.

I think if someone goes to NCU to earn a BS in order to get admission to graduate school at a more credible institution then the lack of credibility won't matter much as it is the last credential that matter the most.

 

Agreed. The degree and academic quality of the material and program is not substandard, however the reputation is poor. I think it's due to the fact that so many people hate the way NCU operates and that has somehow bled over to discrediting the academic quality of the degrees and it bugs me when people with degrees earned at NCU are made to feel inferior. If anything, those people should be honored for making it through when so many others are unable to survive at NCU. They obviously have some kind of mojo that many others don't.

 

1. Decide what you want to study, research and measure. If your chair thinks it's a bad idea, then ask for recommendations. After you agree on a topic, then proceed.

2. Decide on quantitative, qualitative or mixed methods.

3. For quantitative issues, decide how you will measure it. Surveys? Crunching the numbers of government data?

4. Expect multiple criticisms and rejections from all your committee members. If you make it passed this process, then...

5. Collect data.

6. Interpret data. How does it fit with your hypothesis?

7. Discuss results.

8. Publish.

9. Graduate.

The candidate must do all of this. The chair will not do it. The chair is simply an occasional adviser. Most candidates expect much much more from a chair, but it's not going to happen!

 

Hopefully he/she has your best interests at heart. With professors at least, sometimes I'm not so sure anymore.

 

You got this right, I googled NCU and negative words such as scam, ripoff, etc and quite a few links came out:

Ripoff Report | Northcentral University On-line | Complaint Review: 235580

NCU - Northcentral University - Worse decision of my life

There is also a lot of confusion among students, one of the students made a comment: I am glad to report that NCU has achieved its ACSB accreditation