Last call for advice before I commit to an unaccredited university!

I'm not sure why Maven is now being coy since he or she has named the non-RA institution in a previous thread.

 

Eschew Obfuscation

Maven is being coy to the point of being deceitful. Maven is providing excuses for not answering the question in an attempt to allow the original misconception posed in the question to pass as fact. Maven does not have an RA MBA, and it is unlikely that he or she has a Ph.D. either.

As of late January Maven was claiming that he or she was “finishing up” an MBA at the unaccredited Frederick W. Taylor University, and that he or she would be, “finishing my Ph.D in Executive Management at FTIU once the MBA is completed.” Considering the nature of the institutions in question, it is, of course, quite possible that since January 25th, Maven not only finished his or her MBA but was also granted the Ph.D. by the eminently unaccredited Frederick Taylor International University.

Yes, this is the same GAAS passing Frederick Taylor International University sued by the State of Hawaii, who then hightailed it to Montana (although they really continue to operate from California). And as of last week, Maven, although still professing to be a student there, was publicly wondering on this forum whether they were still in business.

So, compare to your other educational choices, Maven, it is highly unlikely you’ll receive even a fraction of the criticism you have to date (and I really haven’t seen all that much, except for a minor catfight with Steve Levicoff) if you reveal the regionally accredited institution (or institutions, as you have claimed to have more than one RA Bachelors degree)

No, it seems that by attending FTIU you have drawn a much, but much, fuzzier line than simply the CCUs. You are drawing a broad line at unaccredited, but state approved schools, which would then include not only California, but also states that have virtually no oversight of educational institutions whatsoever. And if so, do you simply ignore the states in which offering or using such a degree is illegal? I don’t think so. An unaccredited school should be considered only after every single possible accredited possibility has been exhausted, and even then, the miniscule number of remnant programs should be examined very closely to ensure suitability. And even then, the degree itself is suspect.

I agree a school like CCU (and you keep mentioning CCU implying that it is the school you are attending; it isn’t) doesn’t need to be accredited. I agree. Unaccredited schools are businesses, and as such, as long as they are profitable and don’t experience cash flow problems, they probably don’t have a pressing need for accreditation. If they ever truly desire to emulate a legitimate (as in meeting the standard for higher education institutions in the United States) school, then accreditation will become a necessity.

Here I must agree wholeheartedly. One of my favorite executives is Carlos Gutierrez, who rose through the ranks to become CEO of Kellogg (the cereal company, not the school). Forced to go to work at an early age, he only has a high school degree (seems like a good candidate for distance learning). He also doesn’t have any unaccredited degrees, however.

I concur that a person with an unaccredited degree can have as much ability, drive and desire. What they do not have, however, is a successful track record of making sound decisions that have long-range consequences. Tell me again; what’s your chosen field?

 

Validation

Although I agree with the overall gist of your post, I have a few minor points of contention. First, I believe posts in this thread have only involved hyper-intellectualizations when hypothetical (and frequently unanswerable) questions have been posed in support of a particular position. Otherwise, quite the contrary, this thread is extremely useful--chock full of practical advice for the neophyte distance learner.

Furthermore, it is good that the pitfalls of degrees from unaccredited schools be fully articulated, as these schools do a great amount of extremely aggressive advertising, and the allure of acquiring a degree (that in many cases can be passed off to the unsuspecting as equivalent to an accredited one—especially by those in possession of ingenuity, creativity and marketing capabilities, as you so aptly put it), through considerably less expenditure of time and effort, is certainly enticing. Moreover, it is not only comical, but also instructive, to see the lengths (and the degree to which they must forego logic) unaccredited degrees holders and pursuers must go in defense of their credentials. It is important that beginning distance learners realize that these antics are a life-long activity.

I must also disagree that someone truly wishing to validate his or her life accomplishments would choose an unaccredited degree. Because unaccredited degrees (by definition) are substandard, this would only imply that you believe your life accomplishments are as well. Although often given as an excuse as to why someone chose an unaccredited school, upon examination, this is the poorest justification of them all.

And noting that those defending unaccredited degrees, for the most part, hold or are pursuing unaccredited degrees, is not an ad hominem attack (or is it?). I mean, these people are proud of their degrees aren’t they?

 

Feelings... nothing more than feelings...

And yet it was Maven, attempting to equate the choice to attend an unaccredited school with Dr. Levicoff's “choice” to be a homosexual, who wrote, “Of course it will be argued that it isn't a choice for them but rather an innate feeling. To whence I argue that same innate feeling comes upon those who choose nonRA's. To coin a famous Liberal.. ’It just feels right.’”

And some have the audacity to question how I can possibly find the antics of unaccredited degree holders attempting to defend their degrees amusing. So to paraphrase Austin Powers, “I promise I won’t laugh… hard.

 

Re: Feelings... nothing more than feelings...

You mean Maven was that guy? Jeez, Gus, I'm sorry I backed him up.

My comment in the other thread, as I recall, was that unaccredited degrees and homosexuality have nothing in common except that each doubles your chances of getting screwed.


Cheers,

 

Good points Russell.

There are unaccredited programs (usually for religious reasons) that offer quality educations. Bob Jones University & Pensacola Christian College are two examples. BJU is so staunch in its opposition to compromise that it will not even consider Christian accreditation. Even unaccredited BJU offers high quality education which allows them to beat national norms in teacher certification exam pass rates. They have delved into DL. But as Russell's comments suggest even a BJU degree is not without it's problems. I suspect that our state would not employee them in civil service.

Excuses for schools not becoming accredited (other than for religious reasons) are becoming more limited. Even 100% DL schools are becoming accredited. So RA is not some big bad club trying to keep DL schools out.

North

 

While I largely agree with your posting simon, I must admit that I'm wondering if this is not the reason that you've consistently refused to describe your own academic credentials and current interest and involvement in DL.
Jack

 

Re: Validation

 

Jack:I'm afraid that you are the one who has made the misinterpretation, simon. I am not angry at you at all.
Since our little debate I have made a number of positive comments regarding your posts, including the one above.

Response: I'm not afraid to say that my interpretation is correct. Your denial above is meaningless. In fact, a review of a number of your "positive comments" regarding my posts reveals your anger plain and simple. It's called damning with faint praise, whereby you indicate a cursory and superficial agreement with the poster and then, immediately attempt to proceed to undermine the crediblility of the poster. You could'nt be more transparent in your motivation and quite frankly it's not very becoming behavior.


Jack: However, this does not change the fact that you are an anonymous poster who has repeatedly refused to list his academic credentials and/or current interest or involvement in distance education.

Response: And your "However" statement above substantiates my point. How many other posters have you confronted in such a manner? J The very fact that the issues you are alluding to are not tangential with the discussion at hand leads to questions as to your true motivation.

Jack: Do you have the right to withhold this information? Of course you do. Do I have the right to continue to point this out? Of course I do. If this means that you find me discourteous, well, I guess I'll just have to struggle to find a way to live with that fact

Response: Folks, based on the above statement, I rest my case!

 

This is truly amazing. Your narcissism is so intense that the only thing you can imagine is that you have become such an important figure in my life that I would hold a grudge over an insignificant internet debate (which you lost, btw). While it may be a personal failing, the fact is that I simply find it amusing to poke fun at people who have an overinflated opinion of themselves. Even an amateur psychologist like you knows that insecurity lies at the core of narcissism. The fact that you're insecure is undisputable. You've said yourself that you won't list your academic credentials because you don't want people smirking at you - a clear indication that you yourself believe that there is something that might cause others to smirk. In reality your credentials are probably OK but you're so sensitive that you can't bear the thought that someone my make a comment. You're so sensitive about what others think of you that you imagine that "proving" to this forum that I'm angry might harm me in some way, imagining that I'm as sensitive as you. The fact is, I just think it's funny watching you get your knickers in a twist when somebody makes a simple observation - that you are an anonymous poster who refuses to state his academic credentials or current interests/involvement in DL. Perhaps though, I should be more kind hearted and lay off a bit. I suppose that I hadn't realized just how sensitive you are on this issue. It's happened before that I've pushed a joke too far and hurt someones feelings. Perhaps I should just let it go. After all, does it really matter if we know your academic background? No, I guess not. Since you've said that you "rest your case," I suppose that I can rest mine as well. No hard feelings, just a joke that went a step too far.
Jack

 

Re: Re: Re: Last call for advice before I commit to an unaccredited university!

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The degree chosen was a B.A. in Human Resource Mgt. and is currently being completed online (mostly) at Sullivan University and Austin Peay State University. The OWCP would not approve the degree to be completed entirely online. One class per semester must be taken via the traditional method, hence the role of APSU.

Sorry for the delayed response.

Regards, Wes

 

Re: Re: Re: Last call for advice before I commit to an unaccredited university!

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No, it doesn't strike me as odd. But I do think you misread my post. I am confident that the OWCP (although not mentioned or discussed) requires matriculation only at accredited institutions. The primary purpose of my informal survey was to assess the perception and utility of a degree (accredited) earned via the DL method. Since I would be speaking with employers anyway, I added the accreditation questions for my own knowledge.

Again, I learned that none of the 28 employers cared how the degree was earned in terms of DL versus residentially. This is great news!!!!!!! I also learned that only half of the 28 employers required the degree to from an accredited institution. Of the 14 that required accreditation all agreed that if a QA process (example, CA BPPVE) applied to the awarding institution that they would accept the degree.

You see, in the big picture, accreditation isn't truly what's important but rather that quality and real study occured for the earning of the degree and accreditation is a popular way to attest to quality.

Wes Cox, who has a B.S. and two masters degrees all from RA institutions.

 

Major disagreement. To use how you "feel" about your degree to achieve success is a cop out and a major problem with society in general. People are so worried about feelings they compromise their true beliefs in order to "get along". "Oh, how might I look in someone else's eyes"? Come on now, if we all had that attitude we'd still be living in the stone ages. [/B][/QUOTE]

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I was recently told that any institution can gain RA with any of the six associations by simply donating $500K. Of course the basic requirements would have to be published in report form and adhered to -- for the most part -- but the process of gaining RA would run very smooth and quickly.

Unforunately, I believe this to be true. I have found a huge number of high schools, vocational schools, and technical training schools that are not accredited and still these educational providers succeed and the graduates go on to very productive careers. To me accreditation should be used only as one way to attest to quality but certainly not the only method. Private high schools by the don't give a sh.t about accreditation because it doesn't matter. Virtually none of Nashville best private schools are accredited and all send graduates on to Ivy League schools. Why doesn't accreditation matter at the high school level? Answer, because participation a student loan program doesn't exist. I believe if participation in the fedeal student loan program wasn't so connected to accreditation the value or accreditation would be much less than perceived today.

I hope I maintain my interest in the accreditation process for the next several years as I intend to conduct a dissertation on this very topic. I want to research and find the VAST number of RA professors with unaccredited doctoral degrees, you know the ones that were earned at Nova, Univ. of Sarasota, Capella, Walden, just to name a few prior to accreditation. These degree holders do not have an accredited degree yet the RA's look right past this issue. I want to survey employers to determine if accreditation is a MUST or just a policy in an effort to ensure that a real degree was earned. I want to study professionals with unaccreditated degrees to learned what's real and what's just BS.

I want to shake up the institution as whole to reveal accreditation for what it really is -- nothing more than one way of attesting to quality and that this process is extremely politically controlled. Accreditation should not be hard to gain but should be rigorously defended. Right now I think it is the other way around. It's very hard and expensive to gain and thereafter isn't defended to the extent that it should be. Of the approximately 90 courses (RA) which I have taken at least 30 were of very poor quality.

I step off my stump. Wes

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Last call for advice before I commit to an unaccredited university!

Thanks for the response; I was not aware of Sullivan University’s Online program, and I will be adding it to the almost 200 other business degree offerings that can be completed entirely via distance learning on my Distance Learning Business Degrees Web site. A minor technicality: the degree is not a BA in Human Resource Management, but instead, a Bachelor of Science in Human Resource Leadership.

I am, however, still curious. Being that Sullivan University is a regionally accredited (SACS) brick and mortar institution not known for distance education, and the program being offered is new (not even listed in BG14), why would anyone question its acceptance?

More importantly, why is the USDOL spending our hard earned tax dollars on such research? Was it really necessary to contact 28 employers and ask them if a regionally accredited degree, earned at a local school (even if earned online) was acceptable? How and why did the project expand (I hope not at taxpayers expense) to include CA approved institutions, and even employer education? Moreover, how was the question concerning CA approved institutions worded?

As an employer I do not seriously consider those with unaccredited degrees, however, if someone were to contact me, tell me he or she was associated with the U.S. Department of Labor, inform me they were sponsoring an individual for retraining at a CA approved school, and ask me whether I would consider this person for employment or grant him or her an interview, guess what my answer would be?

After all, they’re with the government and they’re here to help, right?

 

I'd be very interested in seeing any ethical code that prevents a licensed social worker from using any quasi-diagnostic language, in a non-professional, conversational context, while off-duty. I'm certainly not familiar with any APA codes that would prohibit this.

What I'm more interested in is whether you ordinarily refer to people you disagree with in the third person, look up their occupations, and attempt to apply whatever they happen to be saying to their occupation's ethical guidelines. It's a great way to make people nervous, even if you're wrong (it's sort of like threatening someone with a nuisance suit), and I'm sure it does give you a certain rush of power.

I've been taking this entire silly, irrelevant conversation with a grain of salt so far, but your implied threat to another poster's occupation--from the comfort of your own anonymity--is disgusting, immature, and entirely out of line. We've got enough trollers on AED.

(This is, incidentally, why I haven't yet mentioned which Aussie school I'm dealing with on this board--how do I know some twit like Simon won't harass my supervisor?)


Cheers,

 

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Unforunately, I believe this to be true. I have found a huge number of high schools, vocational schools, and technical training schools that are not accredited and still these educational providers succeed and the graduates go on to very productive careers. To me accreditation should be used only as one way to attest to quality but certainly not the only method. Private high schools by the don't give a sh.t about accreditation because it doesn't matter. Virtually none of Nashville best private schools are accredited and all send graduates on to Ivy League schools. Why doesn't accreditation matter at the high school level? Answer, because participation a student loan program doesn't exist. I believe if participation in the fedeal student loan program wasn't so connected to accreditation the value or accreditation would be much less than perceived today.


"Perceived" is the key word. I agree 110%. What I find quite interesting is I've never even thought about my other degrees being accredited until I ventured into the world of DL.