Knighthoods! Get Yer Knighthoods Right Here!

I would imagine these are different Orders, unless you have a reason to believe Eparchy of Nebraska was peddling an Order from House of Romanov (Kirillovichi branch). There are many of these things with similar names (eg., aren't there a legit French Order of St. Michael in addition to this semi-legit Russian one, and any number of copycat orders?). There are 3 legitimate extant Orders of St. John besides the original Maltese Knights, plus extinct Russian Tradition, plus dozens of fakes claiming some link to these. It's a mess.

 

After thinking about it, I'm sure you're right, Stanislav. The Nebraska thing was clearly a fake and the Romanov thing is real - I realize that. The trouble is - there are just so many fakes. You're right about the dozens of fake Orders. When I was reading about OIUCM (which sold fake Knighthoods from a bogus Order and claim they don't any more) I read there were no less than 26 fake Orders of St. John.

It is indeed a mess, as you say. The few (somewhat or completely) "real" orders charge admission and use the proceeds for the Church or one of its bodies. The many "fake" ones - just a straight ripoff for the creators.

As Rich says - the value of the title etc. depends on who awards it.

Reminds me of the mill owner who created an Apostolic Succession - that ran from St. Peter to his um.. "blessed, exalted" self. Same "malarkey." I believe that's an Irish word for B.S. "Shenanigans" are the means, "Malarkey" the product. Odd - the Apostolic guy was definitely not of Irish descent...

 

Knighthood of Cydonia is awarded by NASA - National Association of Space Apostolics.

A Knight of Cydonia
Title.

 

Exactly what I meant about FICTIONAL Orders. These "Knights" and their "Order" - and Cydonia are from a 2008 movie. Space Apostolics? Space Alcoholics - maybe. Try keepin' it real, Lerner.

(Zero hits on Google for Space Apostolics - although some Christian Groups are embracing space exploration more, nowadays. Maybe they believe that's where Heaven is... I would have no idea.)

If Cydonia REALLY wants to make money - they should start awarding DEGREES! that's where the real demand is!

 

I think youare right, I randomly chose the word Apostolic I prefer Ambassadors.
If I could edit the initial post I would use
NASA - National Association of Space Ambassadors.

 

I'm sure that's right, Steve. You would know. I don't have any religion - so I wouldn't. It just seems presumptuous for a degree-mill owner, who claims to be a Bishop in a splinter Church I think he founded himself, to claim his own succession to a line that starts with St. Peter. It's like yours truly founding a Blues band and claiming a direct succession to Muddy Waters. A non-starter idea.

 

I almost got knighted. But I couldn't get the coconuts in time to go on the quest....

 

I don't really care about getting knighted --- but how many coconuts do I have to gather to go on the quest for a couple of Doctorates? They'd be really cool!

 

Two. One to halve and bang together, and the other one to put a lime in.

There's another group of knights I considered, but they no longer say, "Ni." Plus, they were a really tight bunch and I don't think I'd fit in.

As for the two doctorates, choose the Grail instead. It will be easier.

Now, excuse me. I have an appointment at the Castle Anthrax that I'm determined not to miss.....

 

Thanks, Rich. Hilarious, the whole thing!

 

Well... real-ish. Not everyone takes what Maria Kirillovna is doing seriously. Her descent front Tsars is real, though.

 

Apostolic Succession is thust what it says on a tin. The Rite of Ordination in most liturgical traditions includes physical laying of hands of existing Bishop(s) to the new guy. This creates a chain that, in all major traditions, traces back to one of the Twelve (plus Paul) - Apostolic Succession. By accidents of history, a lot of these lines run through schism and individual renegades into the sea of "independent Apostolic" churches, many consisting of a single guy. Since these are often eccentric people, you'd have more than one "independent Bishops" plausibly claiming Apostolic Succession also running fake schools. I can recall at least four guys like that discussed here. So for example of all the fancy things John Kersey claima, a Succession claim may be real -because it's not THAT uncommon.

 

I know. To me, that's what gives what she's doing at least some veneer of credibility. Nebraska outfit doesn't have even that.

Delusions are not uncommon at all. But that fact grants them no reality whatsoever - except to the deluded - or Dilaudid - or whatever else they're on. A PhD isn't that uncommon - but that doesn't make a fake one real. Same goes for gorked-up amateur Successions, as I see it.

About as real as my imaginary Blues succession (more to my taste) - Tommy Johnson, Blind Lemon Jefferson, Blind Willie Johnson, Robert Johnson, Lightnin' Hopkins, T-Bone Walker, Muddy Waters, B.B. King, Cedric Burnside (R.L.'s phenomenal grandson) and yours truly. Yeah - in my dreams, like these mill-owners and showboats. We - the "Succession Factory" are ALL total frauds - but few of us (other than myself) realize it. And NO others will readily admit it.

 

"Really are bishops?" I swear some of these guys were "bishopized" as a favour by other splinter group "bishops." There's a brotherhood of sorts - "a Schismatic Mafia." All bogus, to me. And as for fully understanding Stanislav - OR me - that requires a couple of large tomes that haven't been written yet. And may never be. In my case, you get what you get. Can't speak for Stanislav.

 

It is very possible for someone seeking Ordination to eg. find a guy willing to ordain, who was REALLY ordained by someone who was really ordained by someone who was really ordained by Renee Vilatte, who was known to be ordained by Mar Julius I of Syriac Malankara Orthodox Church, a major denomination which undoubtedly has Apostolic Succession. In some views, this is enough to have a real Apostolic Succession. What one does with it is another matter.
It is not undisputed, of course. It's like Orthodox Church in Ukraine, which has valid Orders according to the Ecumenical Patriarchate, but that's disputed by Russian Patriarchate. Because they do not want to, mainly. Technically though, they give 2 reasons: that a defrocked Bichop supposedly can't transmit Succession (an ahistorical bullshit), and because a minority of their chains go through a few Ordinations where a legit retired ROC Archbishop was assisted by a supposed Bishop who in reality was a con man and a sex offender (and I suspect, a KGB plant) - Vikenty Chekalin. Degree connection is that Chekalin later immigrated to Australia and got convicted for practicing medicine using a fake diploma.

 

.Con man, sex offender, fake Bishop and fake doctor. Four! A bogus home run. "Boo, Vikenty!"

 

IIRC, the late Dr. Chief Alexander Swift Eagle Justice was also a Bishop. I believe the Denom. was a very small Catholic one and had a Mexican origin or connection.

 

The bottom line is that Apostolic Succession is a real thing, and it sometimes works in messy ways.

OCU story is fascinating, if you like these things. The Church formally started in 2018, absorbing 2 "uncanonical" jurisdictions that were trying to separate from Moscow for 3 decades: UOC Kyiv Patriarchate (UOC KP) and Ukrainian Autocephalous OC (UAOC). UOC KP' s Orders are really simple: it was headed by a Russian Orthodox Metropolitan of Kyiv - Filaret. That guy was passed over for the Patriarch of Moscow throne and at that time remembered that he's Ukrainian and tried to liberate his Church from Moscow. He had another auxiliary Bishop with him and insisted on leading all Ordinations of his guys. So they all had very unambiguous Succession, which Miscow had to deny by claiming a defrocked (and excommunicated) Bishop loses it - which is clearly false).
UAOC group started earlier (in 1989)and tried to claim tradition of earlier attempts to break free, also called UAOC. The last Bishop of that group (1942 UAOC) lived in the US, headed UOC-USA, and had undisputed Succession from the Orthodox Church of Poland. But at the time, you still needed Soviet authority permission to enter - or leave - the country. UAOC was able to attract a retired Bishop, Ioan Bodnarchuk, to serve as its Head. But in Orthodox tradition, making a new Bishop takes "two or three" existing ones. Single-handed Ordinations are frowned upon as a "Roman innovation" (although there is precedent).
Enter Vikenty Chekalin. He was a rural school teacher and a Deacon in Russia. Near the end of 80ies, he got jailed for molesting a boy. Political charges, he said, which did happen but in his case unlikely. He gets freed and emerges with a story how he was secretly ordained by a Bishop of the Catacomb Church (who did exist, but conveniently just passed away). He provides enough detail and enough knowledge of the Catacomb lore to convince people, and ROCOR Church invites him to New York to possibly join forces in establishing ROCOR parishes within Russia. He is magically granted an exit visa (hard for a convict and a dissident cleric - but easy for a KGB mole). ROCOR Bishops don't buy his act, at which point he goes to L'viv of all places, uses his invitation to convince Ioan of his credentials as a "ROCOR bishop". Then participating in ordaining a few UAOC Bishops, thus throwing shade on their lines.
But that is not all. Once UAOC people start losing trust in him, he then contacts a Bishop in a still-underground Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church, convinces him that he's a fellow Bishop, and obtains his support in a project to try creating a Russian Greek Catholic Church. He then leaves for Rome (with a boy who is not his) to try and get Vatican to recognize him and his project. Vatican rejects him, so he gets asylum in Australia (convincing them that he's a persecuted Anglican Bishop), changes his name to Victor Berg, and ends up in psychiatric residency on a faked diploma. End of story.