Johnson University: PhD in Leadership Studies

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by Cyber, Dec 2, 2011.

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  1. wildgoose

    wildgoose New Member

    DING DING! You *are* correct! It is from the School of Continuing Studies, which is sort of like saying "community college". Sorry to burst your bubble, but it is most definitely in the Boston University Metropolitan College category. A decent program for what its designed to accomplish (much of which is helping people feel special about themselves), but is most definitely NOT perceived as the same calibre of a 'regular' Northwestern degree.

    Look, I know it seems like I'm just being a jerk. I'm not. What I see among distance learners is a dangerous lack of reality when it comes to life. Degrees and programs are like people. In theory we are all created equal. Does that mean that everybody in the world is on an equal plane in terms of ability or opportunity? Nope.

    I'll use myself as an example. I went to a 2nd tier brick and mortar graduate school (Youngstown State), albeit one with an AACSB accrediting. I graduated in 1992 (maybe 93...can't remember). There was a not so nice recession then, and getting interviews was tough back here in NE. I finally landed in front of the one recruiter I REALLY wanted to meet. He was known to be very well connected in the area. I lasted for all of about 90 seconds. He picked up my c.v., looked at it and said (incredulously) "Youngstown State?!? That's no Harvard! That's no Yale! I have candidates available from those schools." As a no extra cost bonus, he threw in a few other very good non-Ivy ones in the area like Boston College. "There's no way in hell I'm spending time with you". He then showed me the door. I wasn't even given a chance to respond. This is very literally a true story.

    I was was so mad that steam was POURING out of my ears. But you know what? The guy did me a huge favor. Yes, my degree was equally accredited as those schools But what he showed me was that I am a pathetic soul if I think that I can expect others to see it that way. I have to prove my worth every single day, and recognize that no matter how great of a job I do, I will face the very same bias next time around. It just means I gotta keep bringing my A game with no water breaks.

    Its a sweet little mutual admiration society you have going here. Keep it up.
     
  2. wildgoose

    wildgoose New Member

    Oh darn! You caught me in a screw up! I didn't get the name of the location right. I hang my head in shame!

    My point still stands 100%. A degree from the online division is NOT the same *IN PERCEPTION* as one from the main campus, just as online degrees issued by a main campus are not the same *IN PERCEPTION* as ones in which in person meetings and dialogues take place. In the U.Md case I know because my sister is a PhD and director of a department there (as opposed to a department chair. There is a difference, but its OT and irrelevant. Point is she (a) hires people and (b) is closely tied in with academia. We were just discussing this a couple of weeks ago.
     
  3. wildgoose

    wildgoose New Member


    Oh darn! Yet ANOTHER egregious error on my part! The shame, the shame!!

    Look in the dirty details of what they have on their site. Any representation of the degree OTHER than the full and correct use of the name as they require it to be presented (eg, clearly stating that it is the Extension School, not the "regular" program) will trigger a not so nice response from them. They aren't aggressive with grads from the other 'more equal' colleges.
     
  4. wildgoose

    wildgoose New Member

    Keep digging in the bowels of their site. There is another page in which they spell out exactly how the degrees MUST be presented in resumes, business cards, and in bios/promotional literature. It becomes sort of funny in a pathetic sort of way. Someone there is clearly VERY worried that the Boston Brahmans will melt the phones over the upstart peasants peddling themselves off as "Harvard men"
     
  5. NMTTD

    NMTTD Active Member

    From the FAQ area of the ASU website:

    "Are online programs comparable in quality to on-campus programs?

    Yes. The same faculty and instructors that teach on the ASU campuses teach ASU Online courses. This means that the rigor and quality of the content, as well as the course load is the same as the on-campus classes.

    ASU Online students are full-fledged Sun Devils and your diploma and transcripts from ASU will look the same whether you take courses in classroom or online format. There is no indication on your diploma or transcript that your studies were completed online."

    BOOM B*tch. And with that, Im done.
     
  6. wildgoose

    wildgoose New Member

    My my, its that itchy twitchy thing going again there Stevie-boy.

    Horray for community! Yeah for mutual respect! That is, as long as respect is defined as not challenging one's view of reality. A furry little creature dared to do that once. Henceforth and thereafter, the furry creature was called "rat", a most vile and disgusting name for one who would speak against the majority. No doubt the rat deserved his fate! Too bad the group that cast him out were called "lemmings". But its ok. They all went down together in a swell little community.
     
  7. Jonathan Whatley

    Jonathan Whatley Well-Known Member

    Source? The link CalDog posted says "It is acceptable, therefore, to list the ALM degree on your résumé in the following manner: Harvard University, Master of Liberal Arts in Extension Studies, Concentration in history." It doesn't mention Extension School. It doesn't say inclusion of "in Extension Studies," an internal affectation that doesn't reflect the content of anything studied, is required.

    ETA: To be fair, here the A.L.M. Management program says that "the degree should be listed as Master of Liberal Arts, General Management or Finance (depending on your chosen track), Harvard University Extension School." So it doesn't include "in Extension Studies," and does include "Harvard University," though does append "Extension School."
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2012
  8. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

    ^^^^Double what he said.

    This group of longtime DL students and DL proponents are like a family....we can be dysfunctional at times (I still argue with my brother sometimes), but what we all have is a passion and interest in furthering the acceptance and validation of DL, which seems to be the antithesis of what wildgoose is trying to do.

    Wildgoose, I'll give you 2 examples of why you're wrong, just from my own experience: My M.A. from UMass-Lowell was earned completely off-campus (the online option wasn't available then), and I've only been to the actual campus twice, once because they needed to see my original DD-214, and the other to pickup my diploma, which I didn't even have to do. However, there is absolutely no mention anywhere on my diploma or transcript about being an off-campus student, and the degree is issued by the UMass-Lowell Graduate School.

    Likewise, my M.A. from MSPP was done in a blended format, with online classes combined with intensive weekend residencies. Again, nowhere on my diploma or transcript does it say anything about DL or a blended format. And to top it off, I applied to several doctoral programs, including some that were totally residential, and I was never once asked if my degrees were earned residentially or through DL, and I was accepted to every program to which I applied, except one which urged me to boost my GRE score a bit and apply again. The doctoral program where I'm now a student has a very real brick & mortar campus, where I will be next month for a residency, and assuming I complete the program, again there will be no mention on either my diploma or transcript about DL or dispersed residencies.

    I'm not going to make the claim that someone with a doctorate from a school originally or primarily known for DL programs is going to get a tenure-track position at Harvard, but then again probably neither is someone with a doctorate from a generic state university who did their entire program on-campus.

    Attitudes about DL are changing, and have changed dramatically since this board was founded. You can either jump on the bandwagon or get left behind.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2012
  9. NMTTD

    NMTTD Active Member

    ^^^Triple what he said^^^
     
  10. CalDog

    CalDog New Member

    This point is, in fact, true, but it is not the whole truth.

    The reality is that many highly regarded schools do offer online degrees, and not necessarily from a separate extension school or division. Such degrees may be quite valuable, even if they don't match the *PERCEPTION* of their traditional counterparts. For example, no one in the engineering community is going to dismiss a Master's degree in nuclear engineering from University of Maryland at College Park, even if it was earned online (perhaps your sister can confirm). It's a very solid degree. And since online programs are typically have significant advantages in terms of accessibility, they may represent the better value overall.

    And by the way -- the University of Maryland at College Park has just announced that it is closing enrollments for its traditional graduate programs in nuclear engineering. New nuclear engineering students at UMCP are now required to enroll in the distance degree program. Apparently UMCP felt that the difference in *PERCEPTION* wasn't significant enough to outweigh the advantages of distance education in this case. Maybe there is a lesson there.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2012
  11. wildgoose

    wildgoose New Member


    DING DING! Very good. Now while your curiosity is up, go digging around and see if you can find comparable, very specific instructions for other "equal" colleges. Then ask yourself, "Well, why is it that they have all of these qualifications on one 'equal' member of Harvard University?"
     
  12. Jonathan Whatley

    Jonathan Whatley Well-Known Member

    Some degrees won't impress jerks. Some jerks are powerful.

    I don't think you're delivering the news to us you think you're delivering.
     
  13. wildgoose

    wildgoose New Member

    BRRRANT! Sorry, thanks for playing. You have a passion and interest in people not questioning how you would *LIKE* for things to be, not how they currently are and what tangible steps can be taken to move the field forward. This board is missing critical self-examination.

    Wildgoose, I'll give you 2 examples of why you're wrong, just from my own experience: My M.A. from UMass-Lowell was earned completely off-campus (the online option wasn't available then), and I've only been to the actual campus twice, once because they needed to see my original DD-214, and the other to pickup my diploma, which I didn't even have to do. However, there is absolutely no mention anywhere on my diploma or transcript about being an off-campus student, and the degree is issued by the UMass-Lowell Graduate School.

    Congratulations on your achievements. You should be proud of what you have accomplished, and have every right to hope that people treat you accordingly. Nothing I have ever said should give you reason to think otherwise.

    Well doc, I have a reality check for you: Even if you have a Ph.D. or a PsychD from a top tier university, you will largely be viewed as inferior by Psychiatrists. They will treat you with professional courtesy, and view you as a colleague in the sense that you take less profitable and less interesting cases from them, and are qualified for therapy, but they are the ones with the 'veto' power over your suggestion of medication. You meet with patients for 40 minutes week in and week out. They get to waltz in and make a grand diagnosis completely different from yours. The only thing you can do is protest. You are the one who knows the patient, and puts the time in. But the higher credibility always goes to them. Can you handle that?

    I am not a bandwagon type of person. The problem with jumping on and off bandwagons is that you can blow out a knee doing it. I rather plot a course and figure out the best way to get there given the aims and objectives, then execute it.
     
  14. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    I know it may come across as sarcastic, but I mean this sincerely -- it's sad that you have so much emptiness in you that you're reduced to anonymously baiting strangers on the Internet. I truly hope that you find the help that this sort of behavior shows you so desperately need.
     
  15. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

    I'll make this short and to the point.....you've been here for a very short amount of time, and have managed to piss-off just about every moderator as well as well-established members. I don't often invoke my banning ability except for spammers, but you're very close to an involuntary vacation. You simply haven't established any credibility that allows you to be so argumentative and create havoc on the board.

    If you can't play well with us, then the door is that way ---------------------------->
     
  16. wildgoose

    wildgoose New Member

    Never thought that this was news. However there is a real value in shaking up stagnant, wishful thinking. DL could be so much better if people would stop dealing with Pollyannaisms and have meaningful discussion about the realities, both good and bad, and how to make it better. That starts with accepting reality for what it is.

    Jerks ARE jerks, and they are going to continue to be jerks, and there ain't nothing we can do to change them. What we CAN do is asking tough questions of the industry (Eegad...did he just call it an INDUSTRY?!?!? The horror! The horror!) and the people who reap the profits of it, particularly the b&m places. For example: "Hey...Harvard! Why exactly is it that you appeal to our sense of vanity by holding out your prestigious name, but then attach so many and,ifs, and buts to it?"

    Here's the dirty little secret: Bruce is DEAD ACCURATE when he says that dl is the wave of the future. But there are a couple of small but important steps which MUST take place. Traditional b&m universities want the cash flow from dl students, but they want it to stay weak. That simply must change, and it is something that a board like this can address and advocate. But you're too busy caught up in the mutual admiration society thing to seize the moment.
     
  17. wildgoose

    wildgoose New Member

    PS: I am not the tool that you think I am. But that's ok if you want to disagree and see what you want to see. I assure you...I'll be able to sleep just fine either way.
     
  18. Jonathan Whatley

    Jonathan Whatley Well-Known Member

    You're making a lot of assumptions there! Thousands and thousands of psychologists work in fields other than clinical practice and your description has nothing to do with them. Even in clinical practice in direct or indirect collaboration with psychiatrists, my reasonably informed understanding is that they tend to focus on different things, doctoral level psychologists on standardized testing and assessment in particular, which I think psychiatrists focus on very rarely. A psychiatrist will refer to a psychologist for their area, a psychologist to a psychiatrist for theirs. The psychiatrist is generally paid more and all else being equal will have a slightly to moderately higher social status I guess. This isn't news to anyone.
     
  19. CalDog

    CalDog New Member

    A degree from the Harvard Extension School is not "equal" to degrees from other Harvard divisions in terms of selectivity, employment value, or prestige (and incidentally, degrees from other Harvard schools may also differ in these regards). Nobody in this forum is under any illusions about that.

    But a degree from the Harvard Extension School is still a good degree from a good university, and it may be a perfectly valid choice for some people in some circumstances.

    If your argument is focused on distance learning, then HES may not even be relevant; they do offer distance courses, but they also have a significant residency requirement for degrees. I would bet that the most HES degrees are issued to people who live in the surrounding Boston area.
     
  20. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

    At both of my internships (one at a community-based counseling center and another at a psychiatric hospital), psychiatrists were there solely to write prescriptions, and didn't engage in any psychotherapy or testing/assessment.

    Speaking of which, some states restrict the use of the word "psychologist". For example, in Massachusetts you have to be a licensed psychologist for clinical practice in order to call yourself a psychologist.
     

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