Johnson University: PhD in Leadership Studies

So you're saying that my online Political Science degree from Arizona State University (where they DO NOT put "online" anywhere on, near, around, or close to it) will be viewed as less than someone with my exact degree from my exact school, only they attended traditionally? I find that hard to believe given that my degree will not have "online" all over it, almost every major school (ASU, Ohio State, Vanderbilt University, University of Denver, Syracuse University, USC, University of Florida, Florida State University, Purdue, Pepperdine, HARVARD, Oregon State, Virginia Tech, Auburn University, etc....) have online degree programs, and I cant see how ANY employer (or grad school) would question the validity, worth, and respectability of a degree from ANY of these colleges. Online or not, I know if I match my online degree from Arizona State to any brick and mortar degree from ASU or somewhere else, I will not be looked down on or taken less seriously.

 

My, my...such touchy people so quick to get their fur up! One would think you are a distance learning grad or something!

First, I reiterate: I am one of you. I am a distance learner, and believe that a form of distance learning is what will ultimately be the dominant form of higher education. I have an undergrad and graduate degrees from B&M schools, but I am currently enrolled in a distance learning program.

Second, I stand behind what I am saying 100%. You certainly don't want to hear this, but the dominant view in academia and mid to large size businesses is, "not all equally accredited degrees are equal". I can assure you with utmost confidence (by means of a sibling) that an online master's degree from U. Maryland University college is NOT considered equal with a Master's from U. Maryland at University Park. It would probably even be considered an insult to presume a University Park grad earned the degree online. I am quite certain the same is true of an masters from Penn State vs. one who completed it through "Penn State World Campus". Its even listed in a separate category at PSU.edu as a "Special-mission unit" which has led to the derisive insult from the on-campus alums who refer to is as a "special ed unit". Ouch! But it's true. Online grads typically don't hear that one because its hushed up when the pretenders arrive at the work water cooler (aka 'bubbler' here in New England). But as soon as the new kid leaves, the snickers set in.

Closer to my New England home: UMass is referred to frequently by the location of the campus. But I assure you: A graduate who came out of the main campus in Amhurst does NOT think his or her degree is equal in quality or statue to an undergrad degree from the "university without walls" program, or one from Lowell, Dartmouth, or even Boston (although UMB has a better reputation than Lowell. Dartmouth is sort of a world to its own and I'm not as familiar with the 'scuttle on the street').

More recently, Boston University has gotten in the distance learning game. Distance learners plunk down BIG, BIG BUCKS (somewhere around $1,000 per credit I think) to get a prestigious sounding degree from "Boston University Metropolitan College". Wow does that sound Boston Brahman!! But, try to tell someone from the understated BU School of Management (wow...how boring by comparison!) that his or her Master's degree is the same as a MET degree, you might learn some Boston Irish street justice first hand.

Need more proof? What could POSSIBLY be more prestigious than a degree from Harvard? Nothing right? Well go ahead! Get an MLA from Harvard University Extension School. Then list it on your resume, or state in a publication that you graduated from 'Harvard University'. You'll get a cease and desist letter so fast, it will make your head spin. Failure to comply will get you a one way ticket to civil court, and no small number of Harvard educated lawyers who are more than happy to make sure the bastard redheads are properly shown the way to the servants' table. Almost the same scenario awaits you try to claim that you have an MLA in such-and-such (like Information Tech) on your resume, and an employer fact checks it. The employer will learn that your degree is an "MLA in Extension Studies". You will then likely receive a nicely worded letter from Harvard telling you not to make the audacious mistake again in the future. Why even their own credit are NOT accepted into their real colleges. Yup. I just said 'real college'. Deal with it.

You may not like the message, and you unquestionably don't like the messenger. But the good news is this: I simply don't care about the latter. You have zero bearing on my life. What I am concerned about is raising the bar for all distance learning students so that we all benefit. Dealing with reality is the first step to making things better. The second thing is learning to appreciate data and facts as opposed to mere rants or silly fan-boy pom pom waiving. If your pride gets in the way of helping people with meaningful information, that is your problem, not mine.

Cheers!

 

NMTTD,

Actually I can address your example, though I have never run into an ASU online grad...or b&m grad. However, a former professor of mine is now at Northern Arizona and teaches on campus. Perhaps I will contact him for his thoughts on the matter just for hoots and grins.

You are correct that many programs don't specify one or the other. But the very fact that you KNOW this and are touchy over it indicates that YOU know there is a *perception* of a difference. Otherwise, it wouldn't be an issue. (DOH!)

Tell me: What do you say when a prospective employer asks if the work was online or on campus? Perhaps it has never come up. In which case...who cares? (which is the ideal)

 

It has never ever come up. My degree will be from Arizona State University. Not some "special unit" or extension schopol or world without walls or whatever. It will be from ASU. I asked several times and was told by 3 different people that nowhere will it say online or distance education. It will say Arizona State University. I have not seen or heard personally of any prejudices against online degrees except those from for profits or completely unknown schools. As for those from very well known, respected, top tier school? Never heard one single issue.

 

*school Oops!! My daughter was trying to "help" me type lol

 

At least you have an excuse for typos. I have fat fingers.

Look, my point is not to piss on folks parade. But as an FYI, I just sent a text to a buddy of mine at Syracuse who is the director of a department there. I presented your case to him. The reaction was exactly as I thought. He said that if a person passed himself or herself off as having attended the campus, and later it came out that it was online, the department's (exact quote) "reputation would be shot".

The solution to bias isn't to whine about it or (even worse) pretend it doesn't exist or that its the fault of folks for holding the opinion. The solution is to recognize where improvements can be made and insist that they be made.

 

Quick clarification: My friend's department is a research unit, not an academic or campus services one. That's the basis for the reputation comment.

 

Damn, apparently my Northwestern degree, MPPA, is not the same as the on-campus version. Oh well :sad:

 

First of all, you arent telling anyone who these friends are so that we can ask ourselves. Second, I would simply state I got my degree from Arizona State. I would not specify online or traditional because I dont see why I should need to. And third, I find it very hard to believe that every potential employer in every field everywhere would have an issue with where my degree came from. Online or campus, Im learning the same stuff. My point is this, at the end of the day, the name on the degree can only get you so far. You have to know your stuff to get and keep the job. I have no reservations about telling someone my degree came from ASU because it WILL be from ASU. Since my school does not differentiate between online and campus in regards to what the degree says, the work involved, and the departments (its all ASU, no extension or world campus or any of that) then there's no reason to specify if I attended online or on campus. I cannot see why an employer would even think to ask that. I havent heard of that happening, but if it does, I would challenge them to explain to me why it matters and what they perceive the difference in education is.

 

All kidding aside, Steve did not get his degree from an offshoot of George Washington University, his degree isfrom GWU. Same with Arizona State, Florida State, FIU, and in my case, Northwestern University. My degree is the same as the on-campus degree, I belong to the same alumni group, not some offshoot group that meets in a dark alley. UMUC example is completely different, in this case UMUC is not the same as U. Maryland at University Park.

 

Well said. :iagree:

 

Exactly my point. Not every school and their online program can be lumped together. Perhaps some of the bigger schools have some sort of offshoot online department. And perhaps a degree from there might raise some red flags. But from schools that do NOT have offshoot departments and just award their degrees all from the same place with no exceptions, I cannot see where there would be an issue. My advice would be that if its that big of a deal to someone, just make sure the school you want to go to awards their degrees from the school itself and not an offshoot of it. If they dont, choose a different school. Not that hard a concept, really.

 

This is true, although I can assure you with utmost confidence that the flagship campus of the University of Maryland is located at "College Park" -- not "University Park" (that would be Penn State).

However, this is obviously false, because the University of Maryland at College Park does offer fully online degrees.

For example, UMCP offers a Master's of Engineering in Nuclear Engineering completely online, as per the following FAQs:

This degree is offered through the A. James Clark School of Engineering at UMCP. It is not a UMUC degree. And UMCP seems proud of it.

So why would it be insulting to suggest that a UMCP degree might have been earned online?

 

I think you're completely and provably mistaken if your claim applies to describing a Harvard Extension degree as coming from "Harvard University." They seem unambiguous about the fact that they do.

It would be correct if it applied to describing a Harvard Extension degree as coming from Harvard College, the Harvard Business School, the Kennedy School of Government, the Graduate School of Arts and Sciences, etc. But that isn't how you stated the claim.

Much of the rest of your post seems to be an argument that there are stuck-up people everywhere – "special ed unit," "the snickers set in," etc. Sadly, this is true.

 

Actually, it is the University of Maryland at College Park.

 

This is false. Here's what Harvard University itself says about the matter:

So according to Harvard itself, it is "acceptable" to describe your ALM degree as from "Harvard University". Note that the ALB and ALM degrees are issued exclusively by the Extension School; no other division of Harvard issues degrees with such titles. It would certainly be improper to claim or imply that a degree from the Extension School of Harvard University is actually from some other division of Harvard University (that's why you can't call your "ALM" degree an "MA"). But the same would be true of any other Harvard degree.

 

Oops! My mistake, thanks for the correction. :tongue2:

 

^ What he said ^