John Bear's response to Neil Hayes

Dr. Bear!

Thank you for including me in your research. It is an honor.

GUNSMOKE:

Neal Hayes has posted here many times since 2-01-02 with 413 post as 'fnhayes' but now post elsewhere.

RXI

 

Who knew there could be so much drama on a distance education forum. Things will be more interesting now that I know all this is going on.

 

Re: Neil Hayes?????????????

fnhayes posted here for awhile. He had a PhD from a blatant degree mill but did not post in support of academic fraud. He then got another degree mill degree from a less blatant degree mill. At that point he started actively pushing his new diploma mill degree as if it was bona fide. My philosophy on that issue is that I'm doing these academic frauds a favor by letting them know what other people are frequently thinking even though they may not say it. That is that claiming a bogus degree is academic fraud. Neil put me in the category of the "gang" and claimed that this forum was unfair to bogus degree holders. Neil deserves accolades for his dedication to saving the New Zealand Brown Teal duck but he would be much better off, IMHO, if he lost the bogus degrees. He should really know better because he claims to be a college teacher.

 

Dr Bear,

Thanks for doing the leg work to show impartially how DI is doing. Thanks also for pointing out we could do better at being kind to those we disagree with. It is easy to let emotions flow especially when you feel strongly about a subject, but it is more important perhaps to communicate effectively and have concern about the person on the other side.

 

Yea!!! I'm so happy I made Dr. Bear's 'other' list. I'm a newbie poster but not a newbie reader; for, I've read many other fora (the seasoned veterans here know which ones they are whether they're still up or not) that I could find in the past and none seemed bring me back as Degreeinfo did. Most were either uninformative or boring or non-user-friendly. Even if I don't have the DL knowledge to constructively contribute anything, I will support the people that I respect here. They are intelligent, diplomatic (they always have a point for debates, not like some posters in other forums who post just to fume others), coherent about the points at hand, and most importantly, very knowledgeable. I'd already forgotten most of my usernames and passwords for the other DL fora. Only Degreeinfo has the honest info for this sponge. I'm glad to be the little number that I am in support of "DEGREEINFO." I'm so addicted to reading it, I need therapy.

 

I see on Degreeinformation DL that none of the posters refute John's numbers. Instead, two of them whine about how they were treated here, even though we know that the vast majority of what is posted here is civil and helpful, and when it is not it is due to blatant shilling by degree mill advocates (like Neil Hayes and James Crabb). It took them no time at all to take a post like John's and respond with their typical ad hominems. The only reasoned response, as usual, is by "lysias" (Richard Evans, who has a traditional doctorate but strives to advocate for alternatives--a point I disagree with, but at least he keeps things largely on-topic instead of attacking people.)

 

IIRC, the original Gang was John Bear, Steve Levicoff, Dennis Huber, Emir Mohammed, Chip, and Tom Head.

 

Bruce: IIRC, the original Gang was John Bear, Steve Levicoff, Dennis Huber, Emir Mohammed, Chip, and Tom Head.

John: I believe you do RC. Now, can you match the names with the one-line biographies?

a) the guy with 11 (last count) RA degrees
b) the guy who went over to the dark side joining a dreadful Swiss 'university
c) the openly gay truckdriver
d) the guy who will have published a dozen books by the time he's 30
e) the guy who started and runs this forum pretty much as a labor of love
f) the guy who was initiated into the Society of American Magicians and recently did his first performance

 

If so, congratulations, John. Can you make Degreeinformation DL disappear?

 

Yeah… You are indeed an original member of the gang of five or six. The original members are Bear, Levicoff, Bruce, Chip, Emir, and Huber. A onetime diploma mill operator and owner, Leslie Snell, coined those words. Tom Head? I am not sure if he was also named ny Les.

 

Not strictly correct - I have a go at Develos and Hayes when I am lacking any other excitement.

 

Well then your best opportunity is right now. Hayes, despite the clear presentation of data by Jhn Bear, simply refuses to admit that he's made a mistake in his pronouncement (you know, the one that led to the start of this thread). Given two choices (either correct Dr. Bear's statistics or admit his mistake) he's chosen the weasel route - avoid the issue. Doesn't he realize that his avoidance of the issue simply makes him look bad?
Hayes, if you make a mistake, just say so. Your only human, right. Then at least you look like a "stand up guy" instead of a weasel. You're embarrassing yourself needlessly.
Jack

 

Obviously Hayes is man of huge ego. Why else the degree mill doctorates, the false world he creates, and the need to attack those that don't feed that ego. I thought his failure to acknowledge the good wishes he received here concerned his NZ pat on the back particularly telling.

 

Exactly. It is interesting to watch 80% of the posts criticizing DI when the Jamestown Gang does much more in the way of censoring, personal attacks, etc. Very warped but enertaining!

Dave

 

Since this happens repeatedly, I can only conclude that it runs deeper than just looks. On one of Hayes more recent visits here, right after CCU achieved accreditation, he stated that I and many others had called CCU a diploma mill here on degreeinfo. I presented the search data proving to him that he was telling falsehoods. Instead of apologizing for calling me a liar and giving false information, he flatly stated that certain people were stating on another site that I frequently called CCU a diploma mill here so that it must be true. Neil is a great guy when it comes to ducks but seems to have some major problems when it comes to people or even scientific methods.

 

Folks can say what they want, but without the regulars that come here and post, most of us would have little reason to be here.

When we first come to this forum we are seeking answers, advice and opinions. If the group of people that do the most posting weren't here to give those things, then what would the rest of us have to input?

Certainly on some particular issues I (or some other poster) can give good info, but on the majority of things, I simply have no idea (though I know more now than I did 3 years ago when I first began frequenting this forum).

I am glad we have Dr Bear, Rich, Janko, the various Bills, etc here to offer their insight. Most of us come here because we have a question of some sort (and we don't even know who these people are), but we stay because they are here.

my thoughts on it all, anyway.

clint

 

You have to realise that Hayes has superior research skills, initally attained with TC&U and then further developed at Knightsbridge to a level you could not understand.

Most of us learned ours the hard way over several years at accredited establishments ... what fools we were

 

Bill H: "Neil is a great guy when it comes to ducks"

John B: Well, let's ask the ducks. With one hand, he does apparently some fine work in saving the brown teal; with the other, he does this:
----------------------------------------------
Welcome to Hayes and Associates

Licensed arms dealer and importers/exporters of quality shooting sports equipment
Hayes and Associates is an expanding company based in the North Island of New Zealand. We have built a reputation as providing the best quality rifles, shotguns, handguns and accessories for shooters throughout New Zealand and the world.
http://www.hayesandassociates.co.nz/
-------------------------------------------------
If you search within the site for "brown teal" you get nothing. If you search for the dreadful Knightsbridge University, Hayes' alma mater, you get a 'plug' beginning
"Knightsbridge is a leading European distance learning university and offers a world renowned DL course in Military studies (The Managing Director of Hayes & Associates has a degree in Environmental Management from Knightsbridge University)"

Question: why do you suppose he doesn't mention that his degree is a doctorate?

 

Now we get into history: I was one of the Gang of Six, thank you very much. Knowing that, who shouldn't be on the list?

To be honest, I don't know. It may be that Les had different lists. Rational thought was not his long suit.



Tom Nixon

 

So I went to look at Google and apparently the Gang of Six was:

John Bear, Dennis Huber, Steve Levicoff,
Emir Mohammed, Tom Nixon, and Chip White.

However, Steve Levicoff even mentions in the post that this was taken from that the list had grown to include a larger number than six. I had also forgotten that it was originally a Gang of Three, then G4 etc. As Steve Levicoff put it, "..Depending on how many people pissed [Snell] off in any given week."

Interesting how few of those names are still active here. Not surprising since this happened in the 1990s and we're now almost half-way through this decade.

For anyone who is interested in reading up on this fascinating piece of Americana, see here .




Tom Nixon