Is the EIU legit?

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by Alter Gant, Jun 3, 2021.

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  1. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Normally, candidacy means, "We think you meet our standards for accreditation, but we want to observe you for awhile longer." This is why candidates for accreditation are often treated as already being accredited.

    With ACBSP, however, it means something different. It means, "The check cleared."
     
    Johann likes this.
  2. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    True - every word. And there's another wrinkle to this. ACBSP accredits business programs, not entire schools. It requires US-recognized accreditation for US schools that apply for accreditation of their programs. Abroad it requires only "sufficient degree-granting authority in its own country." ACBSP is the sole arbiter of what it deems "sufficient." There are quite a few examples of schools for which ABCSP has accredited programs, which have legal, but non-mainstream degree-granting authority - e.g. Swiss Cantonally-approved schools. I suggest EIU is in this category. And if even if its programs become ACBSP-accredited, that does not mean the degrees will be necessarily acceptable for US equivalency, to recognized evaluators. YMMV considerably with a degree evaluation, when your school does not have mainstream degree-granting chops in its own country.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2022
  3. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    I should have prefaced this with "At best." Yes - it can award some degrees legally, but they do not necessarily have any standing whatsoever. Whatever standing they are accorded is strictly in the eye of the beholder. And I don't think their legal permission extends to earned Doctorates. Hence the Honoraries and the "Doctoral Certificates" - i.e. non-degrees. They bring in money and (hopefully) nobody gets prosecuted.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2022
  4. cacoleman1983

    cacoleman1983 Well-Known Member

    If a NACES evaluator has a chance to evaluate credentials from this school, I could definitely see a non-accredited recognition at least and possibly the ACBSP being listed as a program accreditation at best despite lack of institution accreditation. "non-regionally accredited institution / ACBSP accredited program" would be how IEE would list it.
     
  5. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    I figure we might be hearing from the school soon, possibly indignant about something we've said. That first post looked like someone maybe "testing the waters," possibly someone doing it on the school's behalf - or not. I DO know that most of these schools scan DI for any mention of them. How else would we ever get enough "threats of the week?" :)

    Yes, I could see that. An unaccredited recognition. Exactly how well is that going to work, for the holder? (And that's for any degree but the "Doctoral Cert." which clearly ISN'T a degree.)

    Finally (I think) Rich is, once again, right about "the check cleared." ACBSP themselves say "candidate" means a school has paid a fee ($1250 a while ago) to start the process, whereby ACBSP will have a look at the school's operation, identify changes needed, make suggestions etc. It's all in the Horizons U page that was referred to earlier by Datby98 https://www.degreeinfo.com/index.php?threads/horizons-university.41117/
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2022
  6. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    The thread cited contains a lot of opinion etc. on EIU as well. I don't think much has changed on that subject. As I see it, their license allows them to award degrees (except doctorates) which do not have any State recognition. That's it. Me done, here.
     
  7. cacoleman1983

    cacoleman1983 Well-Known Member

    I was looking at this school as well as SSBM for research on their DBA programs. I am sure that SSBM would be evaluated by Validential the same way as EIU. SSBM has ACBSP accreditation as well. Validential gives accreditation equivalency for those with ACBSP because it is part of CHEA. ACBSP themselves only allows membership and/or accreditation from regionally accredited schools here in the US. They are willing to accept non-accredited/recognized schools internationally if they provide certain documentation of being legally able to operate and be recognized as an educational institution.

    Basically, if ACBSP grants accreditation or membership to an international program or school, they are basically giving recognition of the quality of the business programs as being equivalent to a US regionally accredited school. In theory, this means Validential is validating ACBSP and ACBSP is validating the international school as equivalent to regionally accredited as far as quality. I doubt any NACES or AICE evaluator will give these schools full recognition for accreditation though. They will likely mark them as non-accredited institutions with program accreditation or refuse to evaluate them.
     
  8. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Is this a fair inference? That's not at all what ACBSP does, of course. I can't agree this inference can be made.

    I think more telling would be what foreign credential evaluators think about a school, not what ACBSP does.
     
  9. cacoleman1983

    cacoleman1983 Well-Known Member

    It's not so much what the ACBSP does but the fact that them giving membership or accreditation to an international program that is non-accredited while requiring schools from the US to be regionally accredited to join as members with them suggests that they view the non-accredited international program as comparable in quality to a US regionally accredited program. Validential may view the program or school as a regionally accredited equivalent if ACBSP does in that perspective.

    While this may not be the case, I could see it as a valid reason why Validential granted EIU a regionally accredited equivalent evaluation. I can't think of any other reason why they would give it that but that is what I have discovered as possible after reading the requirements for becoming a member as well as being accredited by ACBSP.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2022
  10. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Alternate explanation: ACBSP isn't a serious accreditor.

    By the way, membership and accreditation are two entirely separate things, with the former having no standards at all and confers zero recognition to the member. Neither does ACBSP candidacy, by the way.
     
  11. cacoleman1983

    cacoleman1983 Well-Known Member

    No, ACBSP is not a serious accreditor. Yes, membership and accreditation are different as you become a member as far as paying, and then the accreditation comes after a serious evaluation of the program. Also, by no means do I equate ACBSP to regional accreditation. I'm referencing how ACBSP as a program accreditor requires US institutions to be regionally accredited while international institutions get some type of loophole that allows their programs to be accepted as if they have the same quality as a regionally accredited program or school when they are in fact not government recognized/accredited in their own country.

    With that said, what do you all think is the reason Validential gave EIU that regionally accredited equivalency? The ACBSP regardless of their status is my only guess. I can see why program accrediations like ACBSP shouldn't be taken seriously but at the same time getting a program accredited in any form can lead to a regional accredited evaluation despite international recognition/accreditation from the school's origin.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2022
  12. tadj

    tadj Active Member

    I just think that it's very unlikely that Validential is looking into ACBSP criteria for mere membership and considers those paramount in making a judgement on the accreditation of an institution in France. It sounds far-fetched to me. I just think that Validential is open too all sorts of non-standard program equivalencies. I would see the reason as being more connected to the business of credential evaluation and maintaining customers. Look at the case of Canada where the Validential evaluators have given EIU French-licensed (non-recognized) programs a Canadian degree equivalency using the "regional accreditation" terminology taken from the U.S. context.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2022
  13. tadj

    tadj Active Member

    According to one Linkedin profile, the Indian School of Business Management and Administration non-accredited "Doctorate in Management Studies" program has also received an equivalency (U.S. Doctorate in Business Administration degree) from Validential. The school isn't accredited in India. I am saying that there is a pattern. It's not just EIU that has received this type of non-standard equivalency from Validential, so I don't think that this "ACBSP criteria" argument works.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2022
  14. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    You'll find other accreditors besides Validential giving RA equivalent evaluations to degrees that are unaccredited in their home countries. People have shown evaluations from IEE and ECE doing the same. In the end, evaluators are comparing the programs themselves rather than accreditation, so I bet there have been some foreign accredited programs deemed equivalent to U.S. unaccredited. After all, we've seen evaluations of foreign Doctorates and Master's degrees where the degree level was evaluated as lower than their origin levels. We've even seen two people get different evaluations from the same agency for the same degree.

    You just never know.
     
  15. tadj

    tadj Active Member

    Any specific examples?
     
  16. tadj

    tadj Active Member

    My impression is altogether different. If an institution that awarded the degree is not accredited under the terms of the Ministry of Education in another country, I would not expect to see a positive IEE or ECE evaluation of the foreign degree...ever. The same goes for programs. Maybe you got that impression by looking at positive evaluations of titulo propios, but it's a different situation. There is such a thing as a non-regulated program awarded by an accredited institution, at least in some places. However, you don't see programs of unaccredited institutions being awarded equivalency with NACES members. I have not observed anything like that. The Indian example shows that Validential provides equivalency even in cases of institutional non-accreditation.
     
  17. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    Yes, the entire propio matter, specifically with ENEB. ENEB itself is not accredited, but its degrees have received several U.S. RA equivalent evaluations from IEE and ECE.

    I'm not sure I see a difference, because ENEB awards its own degrees, and because some of those evaluations have only mentioned ENEB and no other ties. Besides, at the core of it, ENEB is in fact an unaccredited school, and in at least one instance that was understood as part of the evaluation position of WES when they evaluated one of its Master's degrees as equivalent to a U.S. non-accredited Master's degree.
     
  18. tadj

    tadj Active Member

    This is why I said that you may have simply received the wrong impression. Notice that WES considers it to be an ENEB degree, which is why it has not received equivalency. Precisely. In that framework, the evaluation judgement makes sense. You don't give equivalency to a degree issued by a non-accredited institution. The other NACES evaluators make the case for treating it as equally belonging to Universidad Isabel I through an officially established partnership. Furthermore, Spanish universities are autonomous under the law and this explains why non-regulated credentials issued by accredited institutions can still be taken quite seriously. My IEE evaluation states that the degree belongs to Universidad Isabel I. Most credential evaluators recognize propios as a difficult case for any evaluator (even the ones that reject it often state how it is a valuable qualification in Spain). None of the NACES members provide equivalencies to programs issued by non-accredited insitutions. They simply act in accordance with their judgement as to who issued the degree. I don't see how this "challenging case" would justify giving accredited status to non-accredited institutions/programs in an evaluation situation. Validential engages in a different kind of activity.
     
  19. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    IIRC, the person only submitted the ENEB information. Because of that, I came to understand that there is no issue with the evaluation since only the documentation from an unaccredited school was submitted.

    Another person submitted the same thing as above to another evaluator but received an RA equivalent result.

    Autonomous to a degree, because the Spanish government certainly has say-so over what the Universities can and can't do, like the recent change to degree titles which wasn't well received but adhered to in order to avoid government discipline. I had a conversation with a training center about this, and they expressed a number of issues with doing it, but in the end they--like the Universities--complied.

    Is there an official NACES statement on that you can link us to? Or several NACES member links speaking to that position? I ask because before all of this, it had always been my understanding that evaluators would never grant RA equivalency to an unaccredited degree, but the above matter made me think differently about that.

    There is of course a strong possibility that some of these evaluations of the ENEB-Isabel connection (that specific connection being newer and all, and there not having been much evaluation history) were made while working through the understanding of it and that's why those evaluation outcomes happened, but I can't be sure of it.
     
  20. Maxwell_Smart

    Maxwell_Smart Active Member

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    Last edited: Nov 26, 2022

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