IRA lay down arms

Gerry Adams in South Africa

http://www.int.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=13&art_id=vn20051019061403253C304307

 

Mbeki praises Northern Ireland peace push

http://www.businessday.co.za/articles/national.aspx?ID=BD4A103782

 

You might enjoy No Man's Land. I enjoyed the movie and especially enjoyed that the US got, IIRC, just one mention.

 

That sounds like a mixed message to me.

I agree that people sometimes need to defend themselves, but I'm not sure what relevance that has to the IRA. If you are arguing that the IRA should be seen as a self-defence organ, then you would indeed seem to be trying to condone terrorism.

I'm sure that Muslim militants everywhere see Osama bin Ladin and al Quaida as representing Islamic self-defence against the overwhelming political, military and cultural power of the infidels.

 

Bill,

I refer you to my previous statement.

"Again, I maintain if it were not for decades of Unionist discrimination against Catholics along with the atrocities committed by a brutal police force that the rise of the modern Provisional IRA might not have ever occurred. That is not to say that I condone any of the IRA's actions."

 

Look Charles, if you have a problem with the British government go and kill them all, one by one. But you just don´t go and massacre children and women or innocent civilians. That´s is not right of defense. That´s plain brutality, that´s criminality, that´s assassination. If you had lost a son or a daughter or a brother to those IRA assassins we will see then if you saw in that an act of defense ....

 

JLV,

I refer you to the same statement.

 

Charles, with all the respect to you and to all American posters here, this is the Islamist equivalent to your defense right claims:

Al-Qaeda statement, April 24, 2002

I understand you may support the Irish cause. I myself am not a big fan of Britain. But that´s at the government level. In the streets, I perfectly relate to those Brits. I have nothing whatsoever against them at the personal level. There are better ways to solve those past aggraviations or present than killing innocents who never did nothing to me. How do you defend your cause by committing those attrocities the IRA did (like in Omagh)?

Take a look at these kids, and explain to their parents the IRA was exerting an alleged defense right.



(Yeah, I know, you refer me to the previous post where you don´t condone but "understand" the IRA actions.)

 

JLV,

In conclusion, my statemets are not the equivalent of anyone elses.

Allow me to refer you to another of my previous statements.


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Bruce
Which is exactly what the IRA has been trying to do.

Check your history. The rise of the modern Provisional IRA might not have ever occurred if it were not for decades of Unionist discrimination against Catholics along with the atrocities of a brutal reserve police force, the B Specials.

I don't have a lot of sympathy for groups that plant bombs in toy stores just before Christmas.

That was an abominable act. There's no excuse for indiscriminate violence. I will say that the IRA was not alone in committing abominable acts.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The IRA's abominable acts were not limited to the Harrods bombing. There was no excuse nor have I attempted to make one. Neither do I suggest that the whole UK Parliament loose its legitimacy because of the acts of the murderous paratrooper battalion on Bloody Sunday.

I remind you that the Provisional IRA was not responsible for the Omagh bombing.

 

lose

 

It appears from your last few posts, Charles, that you believe that terror is sometimes justified.

Well, the present Administration seems to agree with you; the President's threat to veto (something he never does) a funding bill because it contains an anti torture prohibition certainly looks like getting into (or further into?) terrorism.

But I can't agree. I just can't. Not in the sort of war we're fighting now and not in the sort of paramilitary activity going on in Northern Ireland.

Yes, the Unionists behaved as bullies. But the Catholic population was not faced with extermination or anything of the sort. Still isn't. The British presence in Northern Ireland IS justified because the majority (so far as I know) of the native population of those counties are British subjects and wish to remain British subjects.

Note that I said "native". The Northern Irish ARE Irish and they are entitled to live in their homes. Protestant or Catholic.

 

This is my final post on this thread please feel free to respond. I may start another when significant developments occur.

I have approached this discussion as an amateur analyst, with an obvious bias, based on years of experience and studying this issue.

I am not a member of the IRA or Sinn Fein. I have never contributed financially or otherwise to their cause.

It is a fact that unionist terrorists are and have been the most violent in Northern Ireland.

I have not suggested that anyone be driven from their homes or have their property expropriated.

To suggest that I am some sort of jihadist, is as wrong and as trite as calling one’s adversaries Nazis.

I do not advocate terrorism. I’ll remind you, that you are the one, joined by those in the peanut gallery, who prescribed a death sentence for mere membership in an organization and incarceration those who support it (what ever that means).

I remain optimistic that the aspects of the Good Friday Agreement will be carried out.

 

Charles,

No of course you are not a member and do not support the IRA or any other terrorist organization. You would never have engaged in this dialogue if you were or did. Such a possibility never crossed my mind.

I never called for execution or imprisonment without trial. I oppose the British suspension of habeas corpus and the right to silence in Northern Ireland as being contrary to everything the common law is supposed to stand for. You could (but why would you?) do a search of this forum and find other instances where I have said as much.

I do not disagree with you that the Unionists started this round of fighting. Every condemnation I utter against the Provisionals applies with equal force against every other terrorist organization involved.

This is my final post as well. I think that the only real difference between us is that you believe that terror is justified in the face of terror. I don't agree.

 

not in Ireland or Northern Ireland, but...

Ah, yes, but sometimes one's opponents ARE Nazis (at least the wannabe kind).

And the boys just showed up at Tuynhuys figuring that where Thabo was, liquid refreshment was sure to follow.

 

Charles, we disagree, and probably our points of view regarding this issue will always be irreconcilable, but I know you mean well, and I truly appreciate your postings in this and other threads.

Cordial greetings.

 

Another case where I was absolutely right and everyone else was wrong. There is sustained peace on the island of Ireland.

I enjoyed the newest episodes of "Derry Girls" last night. It is available on Net Flicks. The Chelsea Clinton cameo was brilliant and appropriate.

The Clintons are appropriately revered all over the north of Ireland for their contribution to the peace process. "Derry Girls" is set in Derry almost two decades after my family left. Each episode is like a trip home. The English Language spoken on the show is spoken the way I learnt the language. <3

 

'Tis, surely - an' congratulations t'ye, Charles, for necromancin' a seventeen-year-old thread. 'Tis a foine job ye did!

 

I tell you it was after watching "Derry Girls" last night that I remembered this thread. I I must say Cheers to the Clintons for their role in the Good Friday Accords. The Chelsea Clinton cameo was very poignant to me.

 

Don't be so sure. The current border issues with Brexit won't go away. The instant Boris Johnson said he wanted to "get Brexit done" the problem of the Irish border appeared and nothing anyone has done since has settled it. The Conservatives swept the problem under the rug but anyone who took the slightest interest in the region knew it wouldn't remain swept.

Unless Northern Ireland decides to join the Republic, unlikely but not impossible, the hard border will return and there go the Peace Accords.

 

Actually, the border is not near the problem you imagine it to be. Nearly everyone on the island is pro-European Union. Some memories will never go away. However, the people of the north of Ireland have enjoyed peace for a good while now. Former bitter enemies, Ian Paisley and Martin McGuinness served together as First Minister and Deputy First Minister. Setting an incredible example of reconciliation, They became known as the "Chuckle Brothers." Queen Elizabeth II, may she rest in Peace, traveled to Ireland and shook the hand of Martin McGuinness in peace. King Charles III has stated he will continue the goodwill toward Nationalists of the north of Ireland. In our lifetimes we will see an Ireland where generations of people living in the six counties will have only known peace. I remain optimistic. Who knows, There are even scenarios where a united Ireland could become attractive to all involved.