Discussion in 'Political Discussions' started by nosborne48, Dec 10, 2019.

  1. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

    One of the things that has happened to me in this whole Mueller Report/Impeachment mess is that I have become disappointed in a lot of people. I never particularly liked Lindsey Graham but I saw him as a man with principles. Now I just see him as a man who will say anything, even directly contradict his own statements, in order to defend Trump. There are lots of examples but another one that jumps out at me is Alan Dershowitz. Whatever happened to him?
  2. ITJD

    ITJD Active Member

    What you've got here is a president that understands that power is only valuable if it is used and is very comfortable with being both loved and feared. The reason why the men you quote are showing their colors is that Trump may do anything and is comfortable living at the center of a media storm. Those men have secrets they fear and value more than their ethics. Trump knows them.
  3. Neuhaus

    Neuhaus Well-Known Member

    His about face on Trump kind of makes me wonder if he's being blackmailed or something. He went from staunch critic to diehard acolyte in a very short period of time. I figure either Trump found a way to pressure him or he realized that his criticism didn't sit well with his voters.
  4. Neuhaus

    Neuhaus Well-Known Member

    You know, the thing that gets me about this whole deal is that it's just a beginning.

    When Obama was in office he was trying to be a "King" and he was abusing his executive power etc etc. Then the GOP gets their guy in and he not only actually abuses his executive power but then the entire party argues that it's OK for a president to abuse executive power if he does it for the good of the nation. The GOP will, of course, walk back all of these opinions a Democrat is returned to the White House and, again, scream and yell that this individual is eroding our freedoms.

    Things went full on crazy in the attacks on Obama. We had a governor mobilize National Guard units to "monitor" the US Army because they wanted to perpetuate the conspiracy theory that this was a false flag operation designed to seize power. Now, the order of the day is that crazy is good. Crazy is our friend. The facts are not facts and even if they are, so what? It's for the good of the nation!

    I now strongly suspect that impeachments will be much more common in the future. What held back Obama from being impeached was almost certainly that we still had largely establishment republicans in charge and they knew it would be too much of a farce to put down on the record. The Paul Ryans have stepped aside to make way for their extremist successors. The only response from the Democratic party will be to also go to extremes. We have a two party system that was built around the need for compromise. Instead we're going to just have two extremes constantly shrieking. Swell.
  5. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Some things cannot be reduced to "both sides do it." Sometimes there is a right and a wrong.
  6. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Sometimes. But I think Neuhaus is correct that this isn't one of them.
  7. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    Well, I don't know about all of YOU, but I'M absolutely GOBSMACKED by the verdict. :rolleyes:
  8. Vonnegut

    Vonnegut Well-Known Member

  9. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Looks like somebody found their Mittens.
  10. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Disagree. No one is an angel here, but I do strongly believe one side is clearly more wronger than the other here. See Romney's speech for why. Trump is guilty.
  11. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Yeah, shocked, SHOCKED I say.
  12. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    The Paul Ryans worked diligently (if unwittingly) to pave the way for their extremist successors.
  13. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

    I guess that I am a little shocked by how blatant it all was. It's not a good sign for the future.
  14. heirophant

    heirophant Well-Known Member

    When time came to vote, none of the Dems that I expected to vote for acquittal did. Only one Republican voted to convict, on one count (abuse of power). That was Mitt Romney. Mitt's only recently elected and probably hopes it will be forgotten by the time he runs again.

    Perhaps half a dozen ostensibly "moderate" Dems from red states are apt to have trouble when they run again, too. They may have pleased the NYC, DC and LA elites (and ensured lots of campaign funding), but it will be hard for them to convince local voters that they won't just be tools of the "liberal" Dem machines. Expect Republican challengers to exploit it mercilessly.

    That didn't happen either. I didn't expect that it would, but think that the Dems had hopes, to give them something they could spin into a propaganda victory (allowing them to say: The majority of the Senate voted against him!) The acquittal received a majority on both counts. 52-48 on the abuse of power count (47 Dems and Mitt) while the other (obstructing Congress) went down by straight party-line vote, 53-47.

    Ironically, the whole charade was upstaged in the public's eyes by the State of the Union, the President's very good speech, the white-clad Dems sitting on their hands scowling and refusing to applaud even the 100-year-old Tuskeegee airman. Then Nancy Pelosi (the wicked witch of the west) responding to the speech by tearing up her copy.

    Not their best moment.
  15. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Mitt Romney will be 77 when he's up for re-election. Somehow I wonder he might have other plans.
  16. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    No, but a terrific moment. He told 31 lies in that speech.
  17. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

  18. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    The purges are just beginning. A political pogrom awaits, metaphorically speaking.
  19. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    The truth is that only
    Regarding the tearing up of the speech. It was fine for the pack of lies called State of the President's Mind Speech to be torn into pieces.
  20. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    It is ironic how pro-Trump people have huge issue with this episode. Surely if someone is against some theatrics in politics, they would support the escalator jockey tabloid superstar for President.
    Also, ironic how this is a major issue while the "perfect phone call" is "move on, nothing to see here.

    It's hard to take pro-Trump concerns seriously, it really is. As for Pelosi's gesture, it was spot on.

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