If a course is homologated, is it considered official in Spain or still propio?

Discussion in 'Business and MBA degrees' started by TeacherBelgium, Nov 8, 2020.

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  1. TeacherBelgium

    TeacherBelgium Active Member

    Came across an interesting course on Groupon.es from Aula Empresarial. It's a master in asesoria fiscal y tributacion.
    It's homologated by the guild of tax.
    It comes with 60 créditos and consists of 1200 horas de estudios.
    I will not enroll in the course because I have no time but if I had time I might have enrolled.

    My curiosity peaks around the following question though :
    If a course is homologated or '' homologado '' as Spaniards say, is it considered an official title or still a propio title?

    The definition of homologated as I could find says the following :
    A course offered by a private institution but certified by an official organ (in this case the guild of tax).
     
  2. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    I was offered this page in my choice of Italian, Portuguese or Spanish. No English. So I chose Spanish -the one of the three I read best. This appears to be a non-degree "master" diploma offered by a private institution (Aula Empresarial means "Business classroom") and their certificate can be co-validated by another private school if desired, the second having the unlikely English name of "HighDevelop Business School."

    The homologation of an University degree means that it is fully valid in ALL the 47 Euro. Education zones. You only get that with an official degree, not a propio. As I stated, this cert. appears to be neither. What exactly "homologation" by the Tax Guild accomplishes here I'm not sure - but it doubtless does not include transforming this program from a non-degree into a degree. Again, for the last time, this looks like a "master certificate" that, I repeat, seems not to be a degree at all. It may be 60 credits, as it claims, but I'm totally unsure what if any equivalency you could get for this. 30 US undergrad credits? - Maybe.

    BTW - good summary of official vs. propio here: https://www.protocoloimep.com/articulos/7-diferencias-entre-un-titulo-oficial-y-un-titulo-propio/

    If anyone wants to flog 159 euros on this in an effort to try and prove me wrong - go ahead. No tengo ninguna responsabilidad.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2020
  3. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    I meant to add to the above: NO University is mentioned anywhere in the site. There appears to be no connection between Aula Empresarial ("Business Classroom") and any degree-granting institution of any kind. Just so we're clear on that point. And 60 ECTS = 30 US credits. (One academic year).
     
  4. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Before Dr. Levicoff gets after me - or anyone else who feels compelled to take things literally - double negatives (like this one) are 100% permissible in Spanish. Although incorrect in English ("I'm not taking no responsibility") the device is correctly used to add emphasis in Spanish - as in "I take no responsibility whatsoever."
     
  5. Steve Levicoff

    Steve Levicoff Well-Known Member

    No tengo ningún problema con eso. :D
     
  6. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Muchas gracias. :)
     
  7. Mac Juli

    Mac Juli Active Member

    Hello!

    These guys also have an "Curso online de sexología" for €19,90 and an "Curso online de sexología y curso de sexología avanzada" for €39,90. With a veeery happy looking couple in their best years in the ad. Well.
    Guess I'll pass inspite of this.

    Best regards,
    Mac Juli
     
    Johann likes this.
  8. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Hmmm - I wouldn't have to tell anyone it wasn't a real degree .... would I? :)
     
  9. Mac Juli

    Mac Juli Active Member

    No, but I hope that no one will *have* to convince by performance!!
     
  10. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    If so, perhaps it becomes a real degree, by the official academic French VAE process. Validation des acquis de l'expérience. The French have a word for everything!
     
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  11. TeacherBelgium

    TeacherBelgium Active Member

    This is not the forum for that.
     
  12. TeacherBelgium

    TeacherBelgium Active Member

    I kindly remind you that you were the one who told me so when I found myself in a similar situation.
     
  13. Mac Juli

    Mac Juli Active Member

    Maybe you are right.
     
  14. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    Homologated normally means that the course leads to University credit but not necessarily an official degree. Official degrees are granted by the minister of education and not the University. This is how an official degree from Spain looks like:

    https://www.euosteopatia.es/comprobar-que-un-master-es-oficial-para-que-no-te-enganen/

    They include the name of the king, more about the propio degree below:

    https://acei-global.blog/2015/05/28/spain-understanding-and-evaluating-the-titulo-propio/

    I think it could be feasible to evaluate these credits as US credits by using a NACES service like ECE and transfer them to Excelsior or similar school and then apply for a degree.

    I am not sure if any Spanish school accepts propio credits for an official degree, or if there is the equivalent of Excelsior College in Spain.

    Since these are ECTS credits, another option would be to get a top up degree from the UK but you would still need to pay for one year of education at least.
     
  15. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Indeed. That's the end of it, then. No more VAE.
     
  16. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Homologation of a degree means that the degree has complete validity in all the 47 regions of the Euro community. Official degrees can be homologated but propios cannot. I'm unaware of what exactly homologation means, when applied to anything other than a complete official degree. Particularly, homologation of a private-school course by the Tax Guild, which is not a degree-granting body. Accordingly, I doubt if its homologation privileges extend to the area of degrees or certifying any amount of University credit. I'd think they'd say a lot about it in the blurb if that were so. And they don't.
    These are private school credits, not earned at a University. Far from a sure thing, I'd say.
    The former I doubt. Why would they? Bad for business. The latter, I'm pretty positive the answer is - there isn't. The only close equivalent outside US I've actually seen is Athabasca U., here in Canada. Some call it the "Big Fourth" - but it isn't, really. It is also RA for US students. And, unlike the Big 3, it offers only one degree, a 3-year General Studies BA, that can be completed without at least some Athabasca courses. It is also pretty darn expensive.

    There are open Universities, and other schools in many countries where you can possibly use a fair amount of suitable credit you have earned somewhere else - but none I know of like the Big 3 - where you can graduate after taking almost no courses at the school that awards you a degree.
    If the school accepts them. These are private school credits - claimed as ECTS by the school. It's not a given, that any University would accept them. Maybe none of the credits - maybe some - not likely all. No matter what an evaluator says - the school is not compelled to take them if they don't want to.

    This 159 Euro Groupon thingy is not a degree. I don't think there's much evidence that it can even be construed as part of one (of any kind), either. It's from a private non-degree granting school. I think people need to face up to that and not waste time or money hatching elaborate money-sucking schemes that could come to nought. Propios are one thing, but at least they're degrees -- albeit with some limitations, and only in Spain. What they are anywhere else is still a crapshoot. What this private school course is (e.g. nothing - or a few courses for transfer) -- well, I'm not sure if it amounts to anything -- or not. Not very darn much at best, I'd say.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2020
  17. innen_oda

    innen_oda Member

    I wouldn't suggest it's incorrect in English. It's simply that the first negative either acts to negate the second negative, or in some dialects, intensifies it. It's also not conventially accepted in formal or academic contexts, so perhaps should not go into a thesis or letter to one's boss.

    a) I'm not taking no responsibility - 'It's not that I'm taking NO responsibility, because I will take some of it, but I don't think it should be entirely my fault.'

    b) I'm not taking no responsibility - 'I am definitely and absolutely not taking any responsibility for this, so don't even try me.'

    This is in contrast to the vast majority of European languages (including those not Indo-European) where double negatives are just there to confuse foreigners (I jest!), as well as AAVE, where the double negation almost acts as an intensifier (e.g. 'I ain't nobody's property!', or 'I ain't said nothing to nobody!'). I believe this occurs in some dialects of British English as well, although I couldn't tell you offhand which ones.

    In linguistics, the double negation in (conventional) English is known as litotes, and we often use this for sarcasm or irony. E.g.. 'It's not that don't love working on a Saturday, buuuuuuuut . . .'

    I also think I recall some dreadful Rolling Stones song about the singer's inability to obtain fulfillment, which may have used double negation to emphasise his lack of, uh, satisfactionness.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2020
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  18. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    In English it's most often interpreted (by the mentally lazy) as neutralizing, double negation - and consequently often classed (by teachers) as an error, as the usual intention is not that particular self-cancelling meaning. People who speak highly colloquial English always use it as an intensifier - and that is not considered "good grammatical usage" by purists, who insist that only other negative intensifiers are valid - "whatsoever," etc. People who go to English-speaking schools usually get the "error" alarm drummed into their heads at around 10-12 years of age. They discover it's OK in other languages as they learn them. If they learn no others, they make no such discoveries -and spend their entire lives in deepest, Stygian darkness and ignorance.

    Where do you find it in British English? - I know you'd find this in East London. Also, run-down areas of any industrial city in England - North, Midlands, anywhere. I know you'd hear it in Manchester - I used to watch Coronation Street. Don't know why - I hated all those people. All either villains or defectives - something for everyone, I guess. Not watchin' 'em no more! :)

    People who don't have very much formal education are the most insistent on calling attention to this "error" - possibly because they think that doing this makes them appear to have more education than they actually do. With some people, "beginner's precision" lasts a lifetime.

    BTW - Re: The Stones: Keith Richards is from Deptford - about 18 miles from where I was raised (Palmers Green) at the same time. Yeah, we said it, for sure - both of us.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2020
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  19. innen_oda

    innen_oda Member

    Prescriptivists vs descriptivists, the war the shall never ever be won.
     
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  20. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    I've been wondering if it's illegal in Spain for one of these teaching partnership schools to offer a Doctoral program if the parent University offers one? I've taken it that Doctorates there have to be official, but I figure I could also be wrong and there might be some room to work it out.
     

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