I Challenge Lawrie Miller

Two biscuits shy of insanity?

Agreed.

It's interesting to note that Lawrie Miller refuses to answer the question (on this forum) on what his graduate degree is in. Lawrie Miller was asked this question because he equates trade degrees as being the same in rigor as the completion of a doctoral dissertation.

My cousin has a trade degree and he teaches it; and as one of the finest chefs that money can buy, it's still hard to equate the culinary arts with a doctoral dissertation. Let's see: How many ways can we measure the way a cake rises in the oven. LOL

Lawrie Miller will not answer the question on where he completed a graduate degree, possibly because it's a self-esteem issue (to use his own words). I'll take one chocolate pie and one dissertation -- and please put it on my credit.

 

The fight started in a classroom, I just moved it to the boxing ring.

 

Bruce, I say you hold a no holds barred cage fight!


Abner

 

We're all adults here, and should be able to have a good, old-fashioned, bare-knuckles debate.

Just call me Vince McMahon.

 

I work for a system that includes three different institutions and most of their programs award "trade degrees". We have a great culinary school--the only one in the country invited to provide the meals for the U.S. Olympic Team in Beijing. We tend to use the word "career," rather than "trade".

It matters little to me that Lawrie Miller does not possess a doctoral degree--his two regionally accredited bachelors are more than most people possess and the fact that he was able to complete an RA degree entirely by testing has been inspirational to many.

My stake in this debate is simple: For years, I have been answering peoples questions on this forum about the equivalence or difference between the Ed.D. and the Ph.D. in education. My personal experience, backed up by over 20 published articles, conference presentations and dissertations done on the topic since 1983, is that there is no significant difference between an Ed.D. offered at one university and a Ph.D. in the same subject offered at another. When differences do occur, they are in a minority of programs that offer both degrees in the same subject and may have slight requirement differences (e.g. Ph.D. requires one more research class, Ed.D. requires an internship, Ed.D. requires less continuous residency). When one goes beyond the single department to accross a university or among several universities, the distinctions between the Ed.D. and Ph.D. disappear.

Lawrie disagreed with my position, stating that an Ed.D. is a "trade" degree, with a research requirement that is significantly less than a Ph.D. in education. He (rightly) called upon me to present 4-5 studies that would back up my point of view. I provided six of the 22 that I possess. I asked him to produce similar evidence to support his position. At this time, I am still waiting. Even if he could show that he has earned a doctoral degree from the Harvard Graduate School of Education*, I would not care--I am waiting for the empirical evidence that he claims will vindicate his position.

* - Of course, this doctorate would be an Ed.D., since Harvard does not offer the Ph.D. in education. From Harvard's website: "The capstone of the HGSE doctoral program is the investigation of an important question within the field of education, conducting original research on it, which culminates in a dissertation." Perfect description of a "trade degree", no?

 

I hear you Dr. Pina. You asked logical questions along with supporting doucmentation. There is nothing wrong with that all.


Abner

 

This may be the wrong place for this. I'm new to this but does anyone know if the ba in 4 weeks program/advice is real? I want to go back to school and get my degree but not sure if that would work or if it is a waste of time. Any advice would be appreciated.

 

Yes it is real - however it takes much longer than 4 weeks to get a degreefor most people. Follow this board and you will find lots of additional information that will help you. And feel free to ask questions.

 

No, it's legit. Bear in mind bain4weeks is not a school or program per se. It more of a template, or guide for ways you can test out of a degree at the big three. What are the big three? Charter Oak State College, Thomas Edison State College, and Excelsior College. Why are they unique? You can basically test out entire degree programs at these schools. They are regionally accredited.

I would suggest you post on the distance learning section, and start a new thread there. You will get more responses and exposure. Welcome.

P.S. one last thing. Most people do not complete entire degrees from scratch in 4 weeks.

Abner

 

Thanks for the replies I appreciate it very much.

 

It is a concept, but as noted above, expect it to take longer--considerbly longer. The site has much information valuable to pursing a degree based on assessed learning.

BTW, I'm still waiting, Lawrie.

 

The concept is real, and you can use it to create a degree plan that's suitable for you. Lawrie's site was a huge motivator for me to complete a college degree entirely via testing in 2004/2005. As others have mentioned, it's useful as a template to follow as your own personal knowledge and interests would likely differ somewhat, influencing your exam choices.

Note - the material hasn't been updated in a while and therefore has become somewhat dated. Many tests that were previously offered have now been phased out or changed so any degree plan would have to be suitably modified (with approval of an Excelsior advisor). A specific example is the Business Policy and Strategy exam, which Excelsior phased out in September 2004. To get a business degree from Excelsior now you MUST take their course I believe so testing out entirely might no longer be possible.

Also, with the new computer-driven DSST exams Excelsior is currently giving just pass/fail grades for these exams until they are able to get sufficient data to provide letter grades (the old paper-based exams are not affected).

Nonetheless, it's still a worthy site to leverage.

 

http://forums.degreeinfo.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=28521