Has anyone got a job using a Fairfax University Degree?

Discussion in 'Accreditation Discussions (RA, DETC, state approva' started by A.J., Sep 11, 2002.

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  1. I would guess that they are "imminent" because they don't yet have a degree.
     
  2. DaveHayden

    DaveHayden New Member

    I think you have definately hit the mark here. For most folks personal utility IS all about accreditation. Assuming both the accredited and unaccredited program can give the education, it is the accredited degree that will get the job and the entry to grad school. Especially in the current economy it is all about making the right choice.
     
  3. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    "Personal utility" is the strongest argument in favor of opting for an unaccredited school. And it can be made. The problem is when some people take it a step further and generalize the utility of such degrees. Now, you can even do that, but the generalized statement that fits is much less attractive. (Something like, "Well, you won't get into trouble using that degree.)

    There is a huge gulf between most unaccredited schools and all accredited schools in terms of quality and utility of credentials issued. I don't think that statement is too difficult to accept or defend.
     
  4. blahetka

    blahetka New Member

    IMHO, "personal utility" is nothing more than personal rationalization. Otherwise a collection of books would be enough to satisfy a person's curiosity and utility.

    I found myself at that juncture at one point. However, a couple people pointed out the futility and level of my rationalization.

    If all one wants to do is "learn for learning sake", then go to a few university websites, determine the reading list for a particular program, hit Amazon.com, Barnes Noble, etc. and have at it. It's possible to get questions answered and have dialogs on-line. The result will be an education that will meet one's "Personal Utility" and likely be much more worthwhile than what one might obtain from one of the many diploma mills out there. It also has the advantage of being completely at one's own pace and without the inconvenience and misery of tests.
     
  5. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    I'm on Russ's side of this argument, believe me. But what I meant by "personal utility" was not the education, but the use of the degree. There are some people in some situations able to use some degrees from some unaccredited schools. This isn't a recommendation that anyone pursue a degree from an unaccredited school. But it is an observable fact. Some people do use their unaccredited degrees to their satisfaction.

    But that doesn't make it right.
     
  6. I disagree with Russ. A "collection of books" is not enough to satisfy my educational goals. I find the structure and interaction that university courses provide very helpful, especially when the topic being studied is complicated. Moreover, the courses and exams impose a level of pacing and discipline that I find difficult to impose on myself. I agree that other people will find a "collection of books" adequate.

    I would be very supportive of an unaccredited school that was able to provide decent courses, in-depth mentorship, etc. As mentioned in a separate thread, I don't think such a school should be able to award standard degrees (BA, BS, MA, MS, MBA, PhD, etc.). But they could award some kind of "certificate" or other indication of achievement that would not be confused with a degree from an accredited institution. Personally, I have no interest in degrees -- indeed, I list my DL achievements along with short courses, etc. in the "Continuing Education" section of my CV, rather than in the "Qualifications" section (since I don't want to dilute the latter section with questionable credentials of any sort -- accredited or not).

    On the other hand, an unaccredited school that operates on the basis of prior learning and/or self study from publically-available external sources is worthless - in my opinion, fully deserving of the pejorative term "degree mill". Because it's unaccredited, such a school should not offer standard degrees (BA, MA, PhD, etc).
     
  7. blahetka

    blahetka New Member

    For people really serious about learning, a collection of books may not be enough. However, I wrote this a bit tongue in cheek (also it was quite early in the AM, and I was having another bout of insomnia). I myself enjoy the class room or internet chat experience to provide insights that I may not see in just reading.

    However, I find it laughable that people insist they are going for a degree (or defend a degree they already hold) at a non-accredited or even a degree mill (understand that I am using the terms unaccredited as they apply to the U.S. system) for their own personal use or utility. If this was really the situation, they would not necessarily acknowledge the diploma or even care if one were given. The reality is, however, many of these people actually try to use these 'degrees' for purposes other than 'their own use.'

    What makes the situation of "getting a degree from a school just for my own utility" even more laughable is the determination to do so through D/L. Many of the degree-mills in operation, and a good number of the unaccredited schools that provide degrees, don't have classes, don't have classrooms, don't have on-line discussion groups, or have other ways for students to interact in a learning community. In fact, the main selling point offered by such schools is that one can do it quick, cheap, and can get a PhD with very little effort (usually writing a resume for some mills). What amount of their students would they lose if there were really classes to attend, work absolutely required (many mills will let you 'go thru the motions' if you insist on it), and actually failed people?

    One does not need to go to a school to learn, and if one's sole purpose is to increase knowledge, then study groups or discussion groups, whether in a physical meeting mode or virtual over the net, will suffice. It could also take place truly at one's own pace. However, when someone says "I don't care if it's accredited because an unaccredited MBA or PhD will meet my needs" what I read is "I plan to use this puppy for a promotion or a new job if I can convince the managers it's legit, so I don't want to spend any more money than I have to in case I can't."

    While there are those that will try to skirt the system, what really frosts my heiny are the schools that confuse consumers, particularly foreign consumers that may not understand the US accreditation system, that a 'degree' from their 'institution' is as good as one from Hah-vahd or Yale. In this case, people are paying hard earned money for something of limited use. But then, I don't think too may degree/diploma mill operators would make much money if they said, "actual mileage may vary- and likely you'll get very little."
     
  8. Professor Kennedy

    Professor Kennedy New Member

    Accredited study without garduating

    It is the practice in some Scottish universities (all accredited by Royal Charter as per thje norm for alluniversities in the UK) to provide access to their current Bachelor degree programmes to graduates in any subject to enrol as students and take the classes, participate in the programme in the same manner as the current bachelor students, undertake all the essays and assignments and sit the exams. They do not graduate though if they pass.

    A friend who is has just retired as a Senior Clinical Psychologist ( a graduate from the University of Edinburgh) has returned there to take Bachellor classes in archeology along with the 'kids'. He is doing this out of interest, not for the qualification (he has several of these already in his discipline). There were spare places and he was allowed to join in. The University department earns some cash; he indulges his interests - the only rule is he does not 'graduate' (otherwise, presumably, the funds would go to the University centre).
     
  9. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

    Re: Accredited study without garduating

    The college where I earned my Bachelor's degree will allow alumni to audit courses for a very small fee, I think something like $50 per course. Needless to say, there is no academic credit given for the course, but otherwise you're expected to be a contributing member of the group (papers, exams, etc.). It sounds like an ideal situation for someone who wants to learn for learning's sake.


    Bruce
     
  10. telefax

    telefax Member

    r.e. Fairfax U. / Philip W. Comfort

    Bill Grover: "Dr Comfort also has, according to the back cover of "the Text of the Earliest Greek Manuscripts" a D. Litt. et Phil. from Unisa. I don't know if this is earned or honorary. "

    Comfort's D. Litt. et Phil. was earned. His 1996 dissertation "The Scribe as Interpreter: A New Look at New Testament Textual Crtiticism according to Reader-Reception Theory" was done under Jacobus Petzer at UNISA.
     
  11. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

    The 23 California State University campuses have a systemwide program called 'Open University'. This permits any interested member of the community (not just alumni) to enroll in regular university courses (including graduate courses) on a space available basis, with instructor (and in some cases departmental) approval. That's providing that the course prerequisites are met of course.

    The process is absurdly easy. No application or admission to the university is necessary. Just show up the first day of class. If there is room in the class, get the instructor to sign your form, take it to the cashier and pay your fee, and you are in. At CSUHayward, they give you a student photo-ID and everything.

    You can take the classes either credit or no credit (audit). Credit students usually get the choice of pass-fail or a grade. The credit you earn is real university credit and counts for a degree. (Pursuing a degree would necessitate application to the university.) Open university units are treated like transfer credit and don't meet residency requirements.

    Your welcome varies from class to class. Some introductory classes are over-subscribed, and many regularly matriculated students are hoping to add. Since they have priority, these classes are hopeless. (It's easier to get them at community college.)

    But upper division and graduate classes, particularly those in arcane and obscure subjects, are often under-enrolled. If a course needs 12 students or else it will be canceled, and only has 11 signed up, all of them are going to be very interested in finding somebody to add. If an open university student walks into that class, they will positively love you to death.

    For a guy like me, this is great. I did a DL MA in humanities, but can never have too many courses in related subjects. SF State offers graduate programs in everything from philosophy and art history to classics and museum studies. They will teach you very cool things like how to read Egyptian heiroglyphs, or to authenticate, date and interpret antiquities.

    On a more practical note, back when Silicon Valley workers still had jobs, many engineers and CS types took classes at San Jose State this way (actually they still do), in order to remain current in new technological developments.
     
  12. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    While I was the Commandant of Cadets at San Diego State University's AFROTC unit, some of my students took good advantage of the Open University process. Usually, these were students who'd already finished their degrees, had not yet finished AFROTC, had to be enrolled in enough credits to be considered full-time by the Air Force (and, in most cases, by their parents' automobile insurance companies to maintain their coverage). Some took graduate courses, others took undergraduate. As Bill says, handy and easy.
     

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