Has anyone got a job using a Fairfax University Degree?

Re: Re: I do not understand Rich Douglas!

Both points could not be more clearly stated.

People are rejected all the time from employment opportunities without knowing why, nor given an opportunity to explain/clarify something that disqualified them.

There is a plethora of examples where an unaccredited degree simply won't do. There are very few (none?) where one is explicitly acceptable.

Bear's survey of admissions officials clearly demonstrated the gaps Bill refers to. If RA is a 10, then DETC is about a 5. State-approved and state-licensed (there was little difference) rate about a 1. No denying that.

 

"Is it [insert school name] accredited?" is the number one question I hear regarding distance education. Unfortunately, this is asked by many people who do not understand the ramifications of the question, nor the answer. This provides degree mills and less-candid unaccredited schools with a huge opportunity to obscure the issue. And they do.

 

Re: Re: I do not understand Rich Douglas!

Sorry to obsess on this but who decided that continuum should have two u's in it! I demand that you come forward and fess up now. Also, are there any other words in English that you've tried to trick me with a double u? I want to know about it now!

 

This forum would make a good doctoral thesis/dissertation

I'd go along with someone who came to me and wanted to do a doctorate research project on how people respond to distance learning related topics. There would be sufficient evidence from so-called 'senior members' to show/demonstrate 'patterns', including those contributions of the illustrious (saint) John Bear. The latter's contributions are often witty, excellent and, at times (I guess like the the rest of us), so biased they are off the mark - in my judgement!

Despite the responses by Rich Douglas (I guess we'd all do the same), he does need to look at the verification of the points/ issues he makes about institutions, accreditation, etc. He may see the 'sense' but I can assure him many others (including myself) do not see the links, and the huge jumps he makes, between one statement and another. I don't claim to be the brigfhetest person in the world but I have a PhD, have supervised endless numersv of doctroal candidates in the Uk, US an around the world...but at times Rich!!! This is becoming a 'get at Rich' comment and this is not my intention. What this comment is about is that people here need to be open and not be navel gazing at themselves that they think they've become 'gurus' about distance education.

Personally, I'm becoming so bored with this site, and the arrogance and inward [often USA] thinking that is emerging, I'm not sure I want to be bothered with it for much longer. {AN ASIDE: I'VE JUST CUT OUR HERE WHAT I WAS GOING TO WRITE ABOUT -SOME OTHER TIME. WE'RE TOO CLOSE TO 9/11}. So, let me leave folks with this thought that there are more things to think about outside our own cultures and patterns and this is no less true for education. Those who need to 'standarized' education, in my view, have a problem! Of course, for initial education ( especially in medicine,etc) we have to have some set standards-after that, where do we go?!?

This comment has been attributed to many people. However, as this strand/thread started off with Fairfax University, let me end with a statement attributed to Lord Fairfax in England some 200 years or so ago:

EDUCATION IS WHAT IS LEFT AFTER ALL THAT YOU HAVE BEEN TAUGHT HAS BEEN LEFT BEHIND!

'telfax'

So what is my intention? To get you guys who contribute regualrly (who are nearly all Americans) to 'lighten up' and get outside this US regional accreditation crap! You are, understandably, gripped by it, but it is flawed ( as is much of the UK governemtn's quality assurance industry stuff) and you do not seem to, at any point, recognize this! It's flawed even by US standards' let alone international standards! I'm British. I'm not suggesting that our systems are better. What I am advocating is that you simply cannot generalise and systematize and crucify people to a set standard of education and a system of accreditation that is simply outdated. The accreditation system in the US (and in other countries) cries out for reform - sinde at least the time of Reagan, if not before. It is simply a system that supports a past era but we don't know how to proceed....so we hang on to, and bolster up systems of history, that simply do not serve the futuren - or even the present!

'telfax'

 

Re: This forum would make a good doctoral thesis/dissertation

You've invoked my name several times, so I think it is fair to ask: Who are you? Where did you earn your Ph.D.? At which universities and in which subjects did you supervise "endless numersv of doctroal candidates"? Without knowing these things, it is difficult to accept your experiences as support for your statements, especially when you chose to affront me and not my points of view. ("Guru"? Really. )

I don't recall anyone saying accreditation is perfect. But it is ludicrous to suggest that the absense of any standards is superior to a flawed system. Fairfax operates in just such a non-regulated environment.

Finally, discussions around accreditation usually focus not on the process but, rather, on the relative utility of degrees from accredited and unaccredited schools. Schools like Fairfax operate on the very unfamiliar--to most--fringes of higher education, much more likely to be lumped in with the degree mills rather than accepted as either comparable to recognized schools, or even acknowledged as a legitimate alternative.

 

Re: This forum would make a good doctoral thesis/dissertation

Sir, I feel that I know these other people that you mention and can appreciate the context that they come from. I have very little clue who you are or where your point of view is coming from. If you are interested in me giving your opinions of others any real consideration then perhaps it would help if you would give some of your own background, like name, interests, education background etc.

Thank you,
Bill

 

Re: This forum would make a good doctoral thesis/dissertation

If you haven't thrown up your hands in disgust and left, it might be appropriate at this point to try giving us an example of the new 'pattern' that you would have us adopt in place of our "arrogant" and "inward" thinking, and giving us a few reasons why we should adopt it.

I agree with you that education is an individual thing and can lead wherever the student and his or her mentors (if any) want it to go. When I go down to the library, I choose for myself what to read. I follow my own interests.

But a degree is more than that. If a degree can mean anything that anyone wants it to mean, then what keeps it from meaning absolutely nothing?

In the absence of educational standards, what is the function of a university degree?

There's a reason why American accreditation is such a popular topic. That reason is that our country, unlike yours, allows many alternatives to a single monolithic governement standard.

So please don't flame us becase we find it important to discuss those alternatives. And don't lecture us because we don't accept all of them uncritically.

Everything created by man is flawed, Telfax. But that fallibility doesn't mean that nothing is valuable.

If you have some better suggestions, go ahead and post them. Educate us, get us out of our 'pattern'. But please don't suggest that because educational standards are flawed there should be no standards. That's foolishness.

 

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Hi Ed

Dr Comfort also has, according to the back cover of "the Text of the Earliest Greek Manuscripts" a D. Litt. et Phil. from Unisa. I don't know if this is earned or honorary.

I think an interesting question would be, "Why did Comfort enroll in Fairfax?"

But quite a few with unaccred docs in "religion" do become successful in that field ,eg, White and Zodhiates.

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This is his listing on faculty page at Columbia International University:

• Philip Wesley Comfort
  New Testament, Greek
  Ph.D., Theology (New Testament Studies), Fairfax University, 1989; D. Litt. et Phil., Literary Theory and Textual criticism, University of South Africa, 1997; Senior Editor, Bible Reference, Tyndale House Publishers (1984-2000); New Testament Greek Lecturer, College of DuPage, 1984-1986; Visiting Professor of New Testament Literature and Interpretation, Wheaton College, 1987-98; Visiting Professor, Wheaton College, 1988-94; Visitor Professor of Biblical Studies, North Park College, 1992-93; Adjunct Professor, Greek and New Testament, Trinity Seminary, 1997-2000.

 

This listing is interesting, Gert.

Tyndale House still lists Comfort as a Senior Editor of Bible reference. See www.tyndale.com/authors.asp?mode=view&index=73. And with all the controversy surrounding Trinity in Newburgh, Indiana, you'd think Columbia International University (as well as Tyndale House) would more precisely note that Comfort taught Greek (and still serves as an adjunct professor in biblical studies) at Trinity Episcopal School for Ministry (not Trinity Seminary), which is accredited by ATS.

 

Bill,

I was indeed aware of the doctorate from UNISA, but I am still unsure of its nature. Interestingly, some bios for Comfort list both the Fairfax and UNISA doctorates, and others list just the Fairfax. Of course, I'm speaking of bios appearing after 1997.

In addition to being unsure about the nature of the UNISA doctorate, I didn't want to distract attention from the fact that he accomplished a great deal (including teaching in regionally accredited schools) while holding just a Fairfax doctorate (though he had experience teaching before the doctorate as well). What's really interesting to note is that he doesn't hold a master's degree in a field related to biblical or theological studies. And, as you noted, it would be really interesting to know what drew him to Fairfax in the first place.

 

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Ed , as an aside, how long did it take you read Comforts's collection of 60+ papyri in Greek. Wow took me almost two hours! (hee, hee)

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I noticed one of the names in Peter's list was teaching at Illinois Institute of Technology (IIT). I have a soft spot in my heart for IIT as I was a student there from 1970-73 (family obligations, money, and a general immaturity prevented me from completing my studies).

Soooooooooo, I fired off a message to the school asking htem about their policies (pointing out the CCU degree). I'll let you know if I get a reply!

 

Russ,

As a current undergraduate at IIT, I'm a little disturbed to see a CCU graduate listed as an adjunct assistant professor in a graduate degree program. It is possible that this individual is quite gifted and well qualified to teach his specific course(s), despite the lack of a GAAP doctorate, but I'm skeptical. Please inform us of the results of your inquiry.

In the undergraduate college, some courses are taught by adjuncts with master's degrees and industry experience. Some are very poor instuctors, despite a knowledge of the subject; some are outstanding and some are somewhere in between.
You pays your money and takes your chances.

Mike Goldberg
expecting a B.S.E.E. from IIT December, 2002

 

Russ,

As a current undergraduate at IIT, I'm a little disturbed to see a CCU graduate listed as an adjunct assistant professor in a graduate degree program. It is possible that this individual is quite gifted and well qualified to teach his specific course(s), despite the lack of a GAAP doctorate, but I'm skeptical. Please inform us of the results of your inquiry.

In the undergraduate college, some courses are taught by adjuncts with master's degrees and industry experience. Some are very poor instuctors, despite a knowledge of the subject; some are outstanding and some are somewhere in between.
You pays your money and takes your chances.

Mike Goldberg
expecting a B.S.E.E. from IIT December, 2002

 

Mike,

I am also surprised and a bit dismayed, which is why I sent off the message. To date I have as yet to receive a reply. However, I usually give folks a few days to respond, and if I don't hear anything, I start pestering them.

Perhaps you can answer a question for me. My faculty adviser was a Dr. Henry Messenger. A wonderful gentleman that I did not fully appreciate until much later in my career. He will receive a spot in my dissertation acknowledgements as one of the MANY people that made my academic pursuits- while slow- possible (including Dr. John Bear for steering me away from a non-RA school, Max Jackson of UnivSar/Ahhhhrrrrgosy, etc.). Do you know if he is still on faculty (I could look, but I'm rather afraid to. I would think after this time he has 'graduated' to the great beyond)?

Fond (and weird) memories......

 

So the outers are at it again!

Does this make you feel good, or what, exactly?

Have you thought of maybe contacting the person concerned firstly - decorum, decency, respect ... ?

 

Russ,

Currently there is no Dr. Henry Messenger at IIT. What department was he in?

Mike

 

Re: So the outers are at it again!

Peter, what is the problem? How is contacting a school and asking them a question about public information have anything to do with deceny or respect? Please explain how this could be considered improper?

 

Re: Re: So the outers are at it again!