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  1. Michael Burgos

    Michael Burgos Well-Known Member

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  2. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Tread lightly.
     
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  3. Jonathan Whatley

    Jonathan Whatley Well-Known Member

    Program listings include a potentially high-pressure sales technique, e.g., "This Fee Structure is subsidized by 65% as scholarship and is subject to availability of number of places. Therefore you can take advantage of this subsidy of 65% of the original Program Fee by applying as early as possible. Limited Seats."

    Swiss School of Management
    DBA
    Not new. Swiss cantonal + DEAC.

    LIUTEBM University, Zambia (Livingstone International University of Tourism Excellence and Business Management)
    PhD
    An institutional name highly focused by subject but PhDs in everything under the sun including engineering, health sciences, psychology, and "Any other relevant area (subject to review)."

    IIC University of Technology, Cambodia
    PhD, DBA, DCS
    For the PhD and DBA, "International Admissions are not open for this […] program, at present." For the DCS, a "Page not found" error.

    IU International University of Applied Sciences, Germany
    MBA
    Not new, and another "Page not found" error.
     
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  4. Michael Burgos

    Michael Burgos Well-Known Member

    That is an interesting point. Although, I imagine that they appoint a supervisor with the relevant expertise. In any event, it looks as though this institution has accreditation through Zambia's Higher Education Authority. Also, you missed one.
     
  5. Jonathan Whatley

    Jonathan Whatley Well-Known Member

    Ah, now via the Research Programs menu option, I see B.T. University, India and also longtime DegreeInfo topic Azteca University, Mexico.
     
  6. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Just another way to sell "degrees" from accreditation-adjacent businesses.
     
  7. cacoleman1983

    cacoleman1983 Well-Known Member

    I've actually been in contact with GradXs. They've been trying to get me to schedule an appointment and enroll. I had been thinking about their post-doc programs from Azteca but I am busy enough with ENEB, about to start on my Adult Ed graduate certificate, and doing a training program in media buying alongside working my new job as an Adult Education Instructor with another contract job from an online school.

    These are best for life-long learning that is low cost with practically full recognition from foreign schools although some are likely considered as equivalent to peer accredited here in the US. If you need a degree, I wouldn't enroll in any of their programs and would stick with local schools with an assistantship, scholarship, or some type of reimbursement. If you are a perpetual student, I would say go for it.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2025
  8. Michael Burgos

    Michael Burgos Well-Known Member

    Just wondering here but what evidence do you have that these institutions are "accreditation-adjacent"?
     
  9. cacoleman1983

    cacoleman1983 Well-Known Member

    Rich used the term "accrediation-adjacent" and I used the term "peer accredited". Essentially these are institutions that have relationships with programmatic, institutional, or state-recognized accreditors that validate their institution's degrees without actually being accredited or recognized themselves. Very similar to a propio degree.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2025
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  10. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    I have no interest in engaging you.
     
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  11. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    As with all such things, the proof is in the pudding.

    When AACRAO was the main body for making these kinds of determinations for colleges and universities, we knew what criteria they employed. John Bear, borrowing from the accounting profession, promoted the idea of "GAAP," "Generally Accepted Accrediting Principles." (As John says, he didn't coin the usage, but he did use it.) If a foreign school met one of six criteria, it was generally considered comparable to being accredited in the U.S.* The school, not individual programs.

    Under that system, proprio degrees from otherwise-recognized schools would be accepted.

    Under that system, these schools that hold canon/state/private accreditation would not.

    But AACRAO got out of the foreign credential evaluation business. Later, foreign credential evaluation services stepped in, and that's what we have today.

    One goes to a university to get both an education and a degree. That degree--serving as a proxy for its holder--has to do its job by being recognized as legitimate.

    So, the question continues to be, will a degree from these (or other) "accreditation adjacent" schools or programs suffice here in the U.S.? We know that when degrees from them are evaluated successfully as equivalent to accreditation here in the U.S. by a foreign credential evaluator that is, in turn, acceptable to whomever is making a decision about the acceptability of one's credential, they usually are.

    Then there is the question of the country and its higher education system. Even if a school's degrees are evaluated successfully, are we to expect degrees from schools no one's ever heard of from obscure (in the U.S.) educational systems in far away countries going to work? Cambodia, Zambia, Malta, etc.? A much tougher question to answer before enrolling.

    * Did you know that the Monterrey Institute for Graduate Studies met the criteria for GAAP? Yup. Under the listing for the CEU in the International Handbook for Universities, MIGS was specifically included at one time. Today, such a set up would be considered proprio at best.
     
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  12. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    Why settle for questionable providers? In today's world, there are many fully accredited and reputable institutions offering online and flexible degree programs. Choosing a recognized provider usually ensures you receive a quality education and the credentials you deserve.
     
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  13. cacoleman1983

    cacoleman1983 Well-Known Member

    Some want to put a check in the box in the easiest, least expensive, and most flexible ways possible. One should definitely go for golden standard accredited programs if they can. However, silver and bronze (partially recognized or legally authorized) programs are still a valid option for those in the private sector or for life-long learning as a whole provided they are reputable and not a diploma mill.
     
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  14. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    I have never seen any evidence of this. I've never seen anyone apply a sliding scale to acceptability based on accreditation status.

    Either people know what they're looking at or they do not. The acceptability of these unaccredited (or equivalent) degrees is entirely based on people not knowing what they're looking at.

    So, what's the difference between getting one of these and just purchasing a diploma? Well, for one, these degrees are much less likely to cause embarassment after-the-fact. As John Bear used to say, putting a diploma mill degree on your resume is like putting a ticking time bomb there; you never know when it will go off. I don't think that's the case with degrees from these sources. Another: you can and will do actual academic work to earn these degrees. This can be as important to your career as the degree.* But....

    Why do it? I'll quote the post above:

    And I can't tell you how much I disagree with this thinking.

    (*In my case, the PhD I earned first was explosive to my career because of the degree itself; no one ever cared about what I studied and found. And with the second doctorate, no one has ever cared that I even have it, but the work I did was vital to advancing my practice in a direction I truly needed. )
     
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  15. Michael Burgos

    Michael Burgos Well-Known Member

    For those interested, after the St. Augustine College of SA debacle, I spent a considerable time weighing options. My motivations for pursuing another PhD don't really have anything to do with upward mobility, as I am well committed to my current vocation. Rather, I enjoy the challenge of research, have particular research interests, and I like the idea of earning a credential that I may utilize in some venue. I narrowed PhD programs to four: Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary (accepted), the University of Pretoria (never finished the process because SAQA took forever with my latest transcript), PhD from an international school through GradXS (accepted), and Euclid (accepted). The program at MBTS is excellent, and I would have entered with about thirty-five percent of it completed due to previously completed doctoral work. I began the program. However, I ditched it because I really did not want to proceed with further coursework in the specified disciplines (mainly due to a lack of interest). I also feel like I would greatly benefit from an international perspective on my research topic. That left me with the dissertation-only programs and Euclid. After taking a close look at Euclid through statistical analysis, credential evaluations, and speaking with a few humanities alumni, I was fascinated and came to see that the shade thrown at the institution on this board was imbalanced and frequently ignorant. However, I couldn't accept their policy requiring co-ownership of my scholarship. That left Pretoria (or another SA university) and the GradXS options. I wonder why SA schools tend to have the most convoluted websites and admissions processes. I spoke to a friend who has a PhD from Pretoria and ended up feeling ambivalent due to the alleged difficulty of nominating a supervisor and what he described as an ethos of heavy-handedness in research direction.

    I spent a while looking at GradXS. Here is what I found:

    GradXS/IIC University of Technology:
    IIC University of Technology in Cambodia is, like most Cambodian higher education institutions, thoroughly indebted to the influence of colonialism. Their educational approach is basically French owing to the century of French occupancy, just as SA's institutions are indebted to the English and Dutch. For those beholden to accreditation: The school holds accreditation through the requisite ministry, which I verified by contacting them directly and receiving official correspondence. I was able to see several credential evaluations by NACES evaluators that were quite positive, indicating US RA equivalency at the graduate and doctoral levels. So much for the "accreditation adjacent" claim. Moreover, the program is dissertation-only with great topic flexibility. They offer an optional ten-day research workshop on campus. Additionally, they give you the option of finding a supervisor (approval needed, of course) and with whom they emphasize working consistently one-on-one. This looks like a reasonable option for those interested in an international, research-only, and very affordable program.

    GradXS/LIUTEBM:
    The program has a similar structure to the one noted above, albeit a little bit cheaper. LIUTEBM has institutional recognition with Zambia's HEA and ZAQA, but it does not yet possess HEA's programmatic accreditation for doctoral degrees. According to HEA, their programmatic accreditation was released a few years ago, and LIUTEBM's programs are currently in the accreditation process.

    GradXS/Charisma University:
    Charisma is accredited by TRACS, among others. This is their newest partnership, and the program looks to be a North American-style PhD with seminar work and research. They're presently advertising partial scholarships, but with no specified tuition costs.

    GradXS/Azteca:
    No RVOE but a legitimate institution. The ubiquity of this institution in some shady places is enough for me. The programs are similar to those offered elsewhere through Azteca. These may bear more weight internationally than here at home. Further, I don't see anything related to UCN.
     
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  16. Dustin

    Dustin Well-Known Member

  17. AsianStew

    AsianStew Moderator Staff Member

    Look! Boston University... They're on the list, that makes it legit... Yeah, all the for profits that have a history show up on their list, most likely because they're working alongside them as partnerships or something to the like.
     
  18. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

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  19. Jonathan Whatley

    Jonathan Whatley Well-Known Member

    And the University of the Rockies name disappeared when it merged into Ashford University in 2018 which became the University of Arizona Global Campus in 2023.
     
  20. cacoleman1983

    cacoleman1983 Well-Known Member

    GradXS is similar in a lot of ways to UpGrad in that they partner with a lot institutions that have something missing in terms of accreditation similar to a propio style situation but are atleast low-cost and reputable enough to offer online degrees. Anytime I see these companies advertised on my social media or on these forums and research the schools they are partnering with, the institutions either have a low-level accreditation or CHEA-recognized accreditation but still not equivalent to regional or sometimes even national accreditation. Whenever a US institution is mentioned, it is offering a program that has not been fully-vetted for accreditation.

    Even when the institutions are recognized enough for a 100% positive evaluation in terms of foreign credentials, they still come from obscure schools. I can't knock the hustle though as these are good for continuing education but are not recommended for those who are required to have the most sought after degrees from schools that could easily be earned locally at a similar price.
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2025
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