George Floyd

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussions' started by Maniac Craniac, Jun 2, 2020.

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  1. Maniac Craniac

    Maniac Craniac Moderator Staff Member

    I'm surprised that we've gone this long without a thread on the topic. I don't know if maybe some of you have been like me, hesitant to be the one to set the conversation off.

    Not an ounce of humanity was shown by ex-officer Chauvin. If not a sociopath, then... what? What kind of soulless creature could ever treat a human being like that?

    As an avid watcher of real police video, I've seen my share of disturbing events. Most of the time the police act valiantly and admirably. Sometimes they don't. But I have absolutely never seen a video as heartbreaking as this.

    Here's an excellent compilation and breakdown of the various angles of video shot of the event. It's sickening to watch, but it's a stark reminder that life is precious.



    George Floyd was not a model citizen, but by all accounts, he was a fundamentally decent person. He didn't deserve to die.
     
  2. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Indeed he didn't. Same with Philando Castile, Amadou Diallo and so many others. And it's not only the police - remember Trayvon Martin. In any case, if I were an African-American , I'd be very afraid of police. If possible, whenever I saw police, I'd try to head the other way before they saw me ... slowly. Never run.
     
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  3. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    This issue is exposing huge rifts in our society. Usually, we get a few days of local protest and then back to normal. This one feels different.
     
  4. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly

    Even if he'd been a fundamentally reprehensible person, that wouldn't justify being murdered by police. (Not that you were suggesting that, it's just what struck me.)
     
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  5. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Philando Castile, Amadou Diallo, Trayvon Martin -- and so many others.

    First evil: They were killed.
    Second evil: Their killers, whether police or civilian, walked free.

    Many more non-fatal cases where police and/or civilians have walked free, as well. Foremost in my memory is Rodney King. Riots? I daresay if the police killed white citizens at anywhere near the same rate, taking into account the difference in population, the streets of your country - at least the cities - might be in a state of permanent open warfare.

    Re: Mr. Floyd's death: I am saddened, especially when I speculate as to how ex-officer Chauvin will likely fare in court, given what has happened in previous cases.
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2020
  6. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    And before people write me off as "Holier than Thou" I'll admit that we have trigger-happy and punch-happy cops here in Canada. But not very darn many of them - and they usually don't walk free.. Here are two of them. One victim, Said Jama Jama was Black. The other, Sammy Yatim was not. It seems Mr. Jama Jama's assailant can't stay out of trouble. The other ex-policeman, James Forcillo, has served his time. We'll see how he fares.

    1. https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2018/05/06/disgraced-ex-toronto-cop-gets-3-year-sentence-for-sexually-assaulting-co-worker.html

    2. https://nationalpost.com/news/full-parole-for-toronto-cop-who-shot-teen-sammy-yatim-on-empty-streetcar
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2020
  7. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    I note Roy Preston, the now ex-policeman who was earlier convicted of assaulting Said Jama Jama, was employed in a security capacity at the time of the sexual assault. I find this disturbing. The licensing process for security personnel in Ontario is usually fairly rigorous. I've undergone it a couple of times in my life. When I needed a job - or an extra job - immediately, there were always vacancies. I got to do security duty in some interesting places - and some dull ones too - e.g. factories.

    I believe conviction of an offence like the assault on Said Jama Jama will usually preclude the issuance of such a license. Perhaps some high-level strings were pulled on Preston's behalf - I don't know for sure, of course. Anyway, I doubt it'll happen again for him.
     
  8. Vonnegut

    Vonnegut Active Member

    The brutal law enforcement assaults that are occurring against citizens exercising their constitutional and civil rights is unprecedented in our modern nation. It is absolutely sickening for anyone who believes in justice or our constitution.
     
  9. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    The charge has been upgraded to murder in the 2nd degree. And the other three officers have been charged as well.

    I somehow doubt they'll get the usual "police discount" on this one.
     
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  10. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Agreed. It is just as sickening to observe the growing numbers of Americans in positions of power and authority, many elected by the American people to those positions - and also their non-elected hired minions - who appear to believe in neither justice nor the Constitution.
     
  11. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    I'm not so sure. There's an ancient Latin saying, Rich - which I just made up. Noli numerare pullos tuos. (Don't count your chickens...)
     
  12. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Right at the time I first moved to Canada, Robert Dziekanski case was all over the news. The way it unfolded, and the way RCMP protected their own, I don't think Canada has anything to feel superior over USA whatsoever. If anything, there's more of a chance LE in the States will learn something from the events and change for the better. National mentality in Canada is that it is already superior, no need to change anything.
     
  13. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Perhaps. But if they let any of these guys walk, things will explode all over the country. It will make the Rodney King riots look like a piñata party in some kid's backyard.
     
  14. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Yes - it very well might. I hope it doesn't come to that - but I'm not optimistic. Not at all.
     
  15. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Indeed a terrible incident and an indelible stain on the RCMP from the actions and subsequent perjury of the accused. For those who may be unfamiliar with it - the story is here:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Dziekański_Taser_incident#Investigation
    There is nothing positive about this inquiry I can say - except that the three participants were all eventually convicted - of something, albeit not what they should have faced, as I see it.

    We have nothing to feel superior about. We are possibly less likely to experience police violence or gunfire - unless we are Native Canadians, that is. Remember Dudley George. And I was very sad to see the Inquiry into Missing and Murdered Native Women come to a standstill amid wrangling. Our legislators and our courts have a lot of work to do, as do our Police agencies.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2020
  16. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

  17. Maniac Craniac

    Maniac Craniac Moderator Staff Member

    This one is ineluctably different.

    I think George Floyd's murder is best contrasted with Walter Scott's murder. In the Walter Scott case, we have video from afar of an officer using an impersonal weapon for just a second or two before his victim died instantly. In the George Floyd case, we have a close-up video of an officer using direct physical contact with his victim to mercilessly torture him for several minutes as the victim, and several onlookers, beg for his life.

    Both actions were evil, but George Floyd's death is so much more personal, and feels so "real". Despite how desensitized I've become to watching people die on camera (I really do watch a lot of police videos...), I really can't take this one. I don't cry very often, but I've teared up every time I've heard Mr.Floyd painfully force out "PLEASE!" from his constricted airway, knowing that all the officer had to do was back up a couple of inches and none of this would have happened.

    What else makes it feel "real" is one of the bystanders vicariously saying everything we're thinking as we watch the video.

    "You think you're a tough guy, huh?"

    "He is human, bro!"

    "He's not ******* moving!!!"
     
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  18. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    Lots of numeric symbolism involving this situation, I won't say any more about that though... I'll just say, the fact that black men are misused so often in these matters is something everyone needs to pay attention to and think deeply about.

    Marching, rioting, and protesting has been going on with these problems for a long time and it hasn't solved anything, obviously, because look at what keeps happening. Mere suspensions/administrative leaves and firings are miscarriages of justice and it continues to communicate that black people in this country are not counted as sentient human beings deserving of justice and equal protections under the law. These CRIMES committed by police officers need to be prosecuted as capital murders with the death penalty being on the table each time, and those consequences need to be strongly and consistently communicated throughout each police department across the country from the federal level.

    The officer who committed the murder should receive the death penalty and quickly, but Minnesota AFAIK has not had that penalty since the the early 1900s, however, I believe the federal government can step in and have it executed. The officers that stood by and did nothing should get some years of hard time in prison. Sadly, this type of situation has played out so many times where all officers involved get off scot free even with video evidence making it clear that a murder was intentionally committed by the officers involved, so I have no reason to believe proper justice will be done here.
     
  19. heirophant

    heirophant Well-Known Member

    What is "the topic"? That's a crucial issue in most of these political threads in which people try to define and control "the narrative".

    I don't accept that the narrative is "George Floyd". He's not the narrative any more than Patrick Underwood is. Underwood was a (African American) federal security guard at the Oakland federal building, who was shot and killed while doing his job during a protest there several days ago. Another guard with him was also shot but still seems to be alive. Floyd isn't the narrative any more than the Las Vegas police officer who was trying to arrest a rioter who resisted, and as they were struggling, another protester shot the officer point blank in the back of the head.

    Floyd could have remained the narrative, but things have spiraled far beyond that point. It wouldn't have been a very strong narrative either, since the police officer accused of killing Floyd is in custody and facing murder charges. Assuming that it's possible for him to get a fair trial, justice will be done. I'm no more emotionally aroused about it than I am about the thousands of other homicides that occur in the United States every year. I feel no need to emote for anyone else's pleasure. I won't be taking a knee and adopting a posture of submission to rioters.

    As far as I'm concerned, the narrative is thousands of stores looted, hundreds of buildings burned by arson, and countless people physically assaulted. (Some of them fatally. I mean knocking people down and then kicking them in the head is attempted murder, an attempt to cause brain damage.) The narrative at this point is what governors, mayors and police chiefs are going to do to protect the public from what some people out there would love to become a violent general insurrection. Including a few of those governors, mayors and police chiefs themselves, who openly side with the rioters.
     
  20. Maxwell_Smart

    Maxwell_Smart Active Member

    I find your post well-meaning but almost entirely tone deaf, and the bold is where it particularly misses the mark. Being in custody and facing murder charges has meant nothing far too many times when a white police officer has killed a black person because like LA pointed out, the outcome has often still not been fair justice even when video evidence shows a murder was committed. That is why the explosion of outrage has taken place across the country, because people have seen this scenario more times than they can count, the officers get away with it in the end, and the cycle continues. People are tired of that cycle, and this is the result.

    I can agree the eruption of destructive behavior that has occurred from it is the wrong way to go, I don't think anyone agrees with that aspect, but we have to understand that it's happening as a response not to this one situation, but to a cycle of similar situations that have gone on for far too long.
     

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