GAAP is not RA

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by DWCox, Aug 20, 2003.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Jeff Hampton

    Jeff Hampton New Member

    Let me put it this way: Is the difference between a grade of "D" and a grade of "A" a little difference?

    I believe that DETC's own numbers showed acceptance of their credits/degrees by RA schools to be around 2/3. Sixty-something percent. That's a "D" in my book.
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 23, 2003
  2. c.novick

    c.novick New Member

    While some may turn their nose up at DETC accredited universities, 2/3 of the colleges do not.

    As I have stated numerous times... if you are a recent high school graduate or haven't established yourself in the job market. If you are looking to get into a blue chip graduate program... DETC accredited universities are not the wisest choice.

    For the rest of socieity, there is nothing wrong with attending a DETC university, I have not experienced any problems with it yet. I have learned much more doing my studies in a distance fashion. I am satisfied with the course content. I enjoy my studies and find the course work to be more of a challenge than some of the RA programs I have gone through.

    I haven't experienced one set back in the work place and as an established student, it compliments my resume. It has value for some students in the right perspective.

    Counting in the variables, I would give it a "B-" in my book.
  3. oxpecker

    oxpecker New Member

    I believe that this statement is INCORRECT.

    It may be true that 2/3 of students managed to transfer credits from DETC-accredited schools to RA-accredited schools. But that does NOT indicate anything about the fraction of RA-accredited schools that accept credits from DETC-accredited schools.

    It's probable that the students applied to a small subset of the RA-accredited schools (and a subset deliberately selected as likely to accept credits from DETC-accredited schools).
  4. c.novick

    c.novick New Member

    I believe the statement is CORRECT.

    What is your point?

    I doubt there is a super- secret list of RA colleges and universities that DETC accredited college students know exactly where to apply to get accepted to keep the statistics high.

    They have been accepted to... or have had their credits accepted for transfer by RA colleges. It is their reponsibilty to find which ones will and which ones will not.
  5. kf5k

    kf5k member

    I agree with what you have said about the B- as being about right. DL degree programs being offered by the large B & M schools have different entrance requirements and basically an open admissions policy. It does seem that the distance between DL programs and their B & M schools is closing, they are not yet the same. A Harvard MBA is still at the top of the hill and no RA/ DL school program can match its utility or name recognition. I don't see RA/DL as a top of the hill, but still a good method of education for many people. A young person just out of, or still in High School, should go to the best B & M school they can afford or get in. DETC or RA/DL education is good for adults because of the experience they bring to the employment table. In many cases, mine included, distance education has been the only option. To say that DETC or RA/DL are best for many is to miss the point. DETC or RA/DL are only a small part of higher learning in America, B & M is the true King of the numbers game and is the most appropriate for the majority of college bound people. I don't want my 17 year old son doing DETC or RA/DL. Later in life if he chooses to go the DL route I would say (Great) go for it, but not now. He needs to make the connections, important for a career in business, meet the people and experience the direct face to face contact with others of similar interests. I would thus rate B & M education best for young people starting out and with little real world experience.

    RA/BM = A
    RA/DL = A-
    DETC = B-
    This is how I see the different methods of education and I don't see the vast gap between RA/DL programs and DETC schools.
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 23, 2003
  6. DaveHayden

    DaveHayden New Member

    Hi All
    So we have established that a DETC is clearly not as useful as an RA degree. That being the case why would a person choose a DETC program over an RA one? It has been previously pointed out they are just as costly. Are we saying they are easier, have less restrictive admissions, or? Thanks.
  7. c.novick

    c.novick New Member

    Hi Dave

    After taking my final exam in Physics Tuesday, I must admit the course work isn't easier, although sometimes I wish it was. :)

    You have an excellent question.

    I am sure there is less restricive admissions. I just have no luck, believe it or not 9 RA college credits weren't accepted into my program. After a fight, I did get my Western Civ II accepted.

    I can't speak for other DETC program students, but I enjoy my program, the delivery and education service provided. I am at a point in my career that RA is not as important, but clearly that is not the rule for most.

    So it depends on the person and their situation I would reason.
    I haven't had any problems yet.

  8. wfready

    wfready New Member

    I think DETC still has more schools that offer specialized programs completely through DL that RA schools don't offer. Some programs (Technology, engineering) RA rarely do in DL format because of it requiring lab work.

    It's schools like B&M NA schools like ITT that I do not understand why someone would spend 20K on an associates in engineering technology when just about ALL community colleges have some sort of degree in engineering technology for far less. Then, these students find out that a lot of schools won't take their ITT degree for transfer into a BSET because it isn't RA. Kind of lame if you ask me.

    Best Regards,
  9. oxpecker

    oxpecker New Member

    My point is that you are absolutely wrong.
  10. DaveHayden

    DaveHayden New Member

    I definately understand you like the program and enjoy it. Typically those are things people would not know before choosing a program.

    Why should a person CHOOSE a DETC program over an RA program?
  11. DaveHayden

    DaveHayden New Member

    Do you know of any examples of programs that are not duplicated? So far I haven't seen any that don't have RA equivilents at roughly the same cost. Is it perhaps a situation where the lack of information leads the prospective student to not realize there are better choices?
  12. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

    I agree with Oxpecker.

    There is a tremendous difference between asserting: A. 2/3 of universities accept DETC degrees, and B. 2/3 of those DETC graduates that subsequently seek admission elsewhere ultimately find it, if only at a relatively small number of schools.

    What's more, when DETC degrees are recognized, it might involve considerably more difficulty.

    Here in California, to the best of my knowledge, both the CSU and UC systems don't routinely accept non-RA credits as a matter of policy, though there are ways to petition for special consideration (at least in the CSU system). Unfortunately, this can involve bureaucratic hassles, additional coursework and provisional admissions.

    We have particularly good information for Florida universities, due to the efforts of Degreeinfo's Bill Highsmith about a year ago. The results certainly don't indicate wide acceptance:

    He polled 21 Florida universities, of which 18 responded with usable information. Of these 18, only one appeared to accept DETC bachelors degrees for graduate admissions. Four more were encouraging, indicating that special admissions were a real possibiity. Five were discouraging, though they mentioned an appeal process. And the remaining eight said that the application would be rejected.
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 23, 2003
  13. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    Someone with a DETC BA trying to get into graduate school would experience something very different from your false assertion.
  14. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

    I'm attracted to American Military University. Most of their degree programs are rather unique, and not easily duplicated elsewhere. (Lots of military specialties, homeland security and emergency preparedness, civil war history and so on.) The university seems to be tight with the military, has developed a masters program in cooperation with the US Merchant Marine Academy and a certificate program in WMD with the Justice Department. It's recommended by FEMA. Its faculty and (more impressive) its students seem to be active and involved. DETC degrees and credits are recognized by the Federal Government and proably have quite a bit of utility for this school's target audience.
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 23, 2003
  15. c.novick

    c.novick New Member

    What proof do you have?

    If I am, please provide me with current data.

    Thank you.
  16. Charles

    Charles New Member

    Hi Dave,

    I chose to enroll in two DETC accredited schools, American Military University and the University of South Africa. AMU's DETC accreditation allowed for me to complete my BA degree at very little cost. My enrollment at UNISA really has nothing to do with its DETC accreditation. I am thrilled with my experience with both of my DETC accredited schools.

    So we have established that a DETC is clearly not as useful as an RA degree.

    Clearly, DETC degrees and transfer credits are not as widely accepted as RA degrees and transfer credits. However, several RA institutions do accept DETC degrees and transfer credits. In my eyes, AMU compares very well with many RA schools. UNISA's 130 history speaks for itself.

    That being the case why would a person choose a DETC program over an RA one?

    When I enrolled at the DETC accredited AMU, I had a very good understanding of the difference between national and regional accreditation. My Navy College representative insisted upon it. I decided to enroll for the following reasons:

    1. Cost - My total cost was about $225.00 (Application fee $75.00, transfer credit evaluation $50.00, graduation fee $100.00. I am sure some fees may have changed. I graduated last year).

    2. I liked the program of study- Military Management.

    3. I liked the name of the school- American Military University.

    4. It was a Virginia school. Not a big issue, but as a Virginian it was a plus. My diploma states:

    "....Given under the seal of the University, by virtue of the authority vested in the Board of Directors by the Commonwealth of Virginia .... Future diplomas will say West Virginia. Hopefully, we won't ever have to look to Liberia for authority. ;)

    *I enrolled in UNISA just to see if I could, and of course because a subject of interest was offered.

    It has been previously pointed out they are just as costly.

    I'm sure there are more good options out there now, like Touro University. However when I enrolled at AMU, (even with Navy tuition assistance) I don't think there were many programs where I could have completed my degree for under $300.00.

    Are we saying they are easier

    Not in my experience. The majority of my credits were transfer credits from RA schools. Everyone of my AMU classes were at least as rigorous as any class I've taken at an RA school.

    *Definitely not the case with UNISA. Final grades for the two UNISA modules I've enrolled in are based on one exam only.

    have less restrictive admissions

    Maybe so, but I don't think this is relevant. AMU/APUS, has a pretty-much open admissions policy, as do most Servicemembers Opportunity Colleges. To paraphrase Professor Kennedy, output is what really matters - not input.

    *Definitely not the case with UNISA.

    I simply wanted to finish a legitimate BA in the quickest most economical way possible. I wanted to be done. I got more than I bargained for. The experience was more of a challenge than I had expected, but it inspired me. Never before did I even consider a master's degree of any kind, not alone a second BA just because I became interested the subject matter.

    I am very proud of my DETC accredited, American Military University degree. For many reasons AMU was the right school for me to restart my educational journey. I sincerely hope and believe AMU/APUS will achieve regional accreditation, but even if it does not, the rewards I received from my studies at AMU will in no way be diminished.

    I have always maintained that to be truly competitive, AMU/APUS must achieve regional accreditation. Never the less, DETC accreditation has been good for AMU/APUS. I do not see how AMU/APUS could have developed to this point without DETC accreditation.
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 23, 2003
  17. Gus Sainz

    Gus Sainz New Member

    You're not helping.

    Frankly, I am a little dismayed. I would like to see the DETC succeed it terms of increasing both the public’s perception of its legitimacy and the acceptance of degrees from the schools it accredits. Unfortunately, those who continually repeat gross exaggerations and unsubstantiated claims, who completely misunderstand and distort the DETC’s own statistics, and who generally act exactly like the degree mill apologists do, are doing the DETC (and the schools it accredits) a great disservice. The worse thing that could happen is that the public ends up believing that the behavior and ideas espoused by some of the DETC’s defenders on this forum are representative of the caliber of students attending DETC schools.
  18. oxpecker

    oxpecker New Member

    John Bear's data (analyzed by Rich Douglas) has been widely discussed (e.g. see, and that's probably the best data we have on this topic.

    Also see Bill Highsmith's survey of Florida schools: DETC degree acceptance for FL graduate schools. Not a rigorous investigation, but telling nonetheless.

    Finally, read DETC's report about its own survey: DETC DEGREE PROGRAMS: GRADUATES AND EMPLOYERS EVALUATE THEIR WORTH. This survey is widely cited -- but almost always interpreted incorrectly (IMHO). You'll see that it doesn't address the fraction of RA schools that accept DETC credits or degrees.

    1,353 graduates (selected by the institutions, supposedly randomly though this wasn't checked) were sent surveys. The responses revealed only 74 graduates who had tried to "have [their] degree work accepted by other academic institutions," and of these 74, only 47 were successful. So that's about 2/3 (47/74). But this result says nothing about the fraction of RA schools that accept credits or degrees from DETC-accredited schools! These 47 (out of the 1,353 students surveyed) may all have applied to a single school. Or they may all have applied to different schools. This issue is not addressed in the report.
  19. c.novick

    c.novick New Member

    Thank you for your information oxpecker. I appreciate it.

  20. wfready

    wfready New Member

    California National University's BSEE program @ 235 a credit hour.

    Judging by Excelsior distance database for UND (the only RA DL BSEE program that I know of) distance courses (I checked Circuit Analysis) is 578 per credit hour.

    UND's BSEE is ABET accredited, which means you need to visit the campus for lab work and is WAY more expensive. Now, I am guessing (hoping) that the quality of UND's program is far better than CNUAS's BSEE program, but if you can afford to fork out 578 per semhour, odds are you can afford to NOT goto work and go to a regular BSEE program right?

    DETC also has schools that have specific trades like:

    Gemological Institute of America

    that have courses and diplomas in the diamond profession. Personally this doesn't interest me but I am sure there is a person with no training saying to him/herself: "boy, would I like to be a gemoligist!"

    I am sure education direct has atleast one topic (underwater basket weaving?) that is not learned through an RA community college..

    I am not going to bring up AMU which was already discussed.

    Don't get me wrong, Dave, I think RA schools are starting to take DETC schools' business away.. I don't know if that means they will disappear or not. I think maybe more of them will pursue RA.

    Best Regards,
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page