FIRST Fully Online (ABA Accredited) Law Degree

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by sideman, May 5, 2022.

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  1. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    Well...if you are dead set on doing this, may I offer some unsolicited advice? First, decide what you want to do as a lawyer. If you have dreams of a nice house in the Hamptons throw away your spreadsheet and go to whichever of the Top Six will take you. If you want a high level federal government career consider Georgetown and then the remainder of the Top 14. No kidding. Big Law and the feds are prestige whores.

    If these things aren't in your future, go cheap. Go cheap. Go cheap! If Cooley Law offers you a 100% tuition scholarship but U Mass only 50 %, unless you live in Michigan or Massachusetts, Cooley wins.

    Finally, if you're a permanent die hard Californian think about Glendale or one of the other better CalBar accredited schools near your home. Don't worry about Bar passage rates. That reflects the preparation of the students more than the quality of the education. I'd recommend against on line or correspondence for the first year.

    FWIW.
     
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  2. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    Oh, if you envision a life of ease and prosperity with a law professorship, it's Yale followed by Harvard followed by Stanford. After that, well, things get dicey.
     
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  3. SweetSecret

    SweetSecret Well-Known Member

    Ha! No, that is an issue of posting while too tired. Without the duplication,
    Ha! No, that is an issue of posting while too tired.

    Taking the duplication off moves St. John's University up to number 40.


    I do not have aspirations [at least not currently] of anything in the federal government... and not the house in the Hamptons either. I have owned a home before and do not even want to do that again. I want to make sure I can pass the bar, practice in whatever state I may end up in the future, and have the least debt possible. I do not live in CA, and I think for some reason the CalBar schools cannot take people from my state, which means I would need to move if I wanted to attend one of them, but then I would be giving up the ability to practice in all states. I am constantly doing things to help communities, and do not see that changing, so I suspect I will never be earning so much that I would be willing to take on a lot of debt for this degree.
     
    Dustin likes this.
  4. TEKMAN

    TEKMAN Semper Fi!

    If you are dreaming of Supreme Court Justice, then Harvard, Yale, and Columbia law schools?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_law_schools_attended_by_United_States_Supreme_Court_justices
     
  5. jonlevy

    jonlevy Active Member

    You do not need to live in California to enroll in one of the online or correspondence schools, you just have to show up twice, once for the first year exam and for the final bar. You do not need to live in California to have a law license there. If you practice federal administrative law such as immigration, social security, tax, or military appeals and veterans disability you do not need to be in California. The cost is a fraction of an ABA school. You do however need to do your research, the chance of actually completing a California distance learning law degree and pass the bar are around 5 to 1 against.
     
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  6. life_learner

    life_learner Member

    Northwestern California University School of Law is one of the most cost effective options for someone who does not mind taking the California bar. Personally I just finished the final year there and will take the July bar. It's a lot of work and there is likely the need to supplement the teaching there by materials from some bar review program.
     
  7. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    MAJOR congratulations!
     
  8. SweetSecret

    SweetSecret Well-Known Member

    I have seriously thought about this, especially since the price is so low. I would be interested to hear more about your experiences with the program. The only concern I have, again, is that I would not be able to practice in every state with a degree from a CalBar school. I do not have any connection to family currently, but I have this deep-seated fear that because I have no children and nothing tying me anywhere, I may some day be expected to take care of one or any number of family members I have not had contact with in 15 years. Of course, if this happens it would be in a state where the CalBar degree would not let me practice. I may be worrying about this for no reason, but I also think I have reason to believe this based on past events of these people.
     
  9. Rachel83az

    Rachel83az Well-Known Member

    You know yourself best, but it's okay to just say no. Their lack of preparation isn't your fault, especially if they're terrible people. At least, I assume they're not nice people or else you'd keep in contact with them.
     
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  10. life_learner

    life_learner Member

    A few things to share.
    1. The curriculum is focused on bar exam. In an ABA law school, the professors will get into a lot more philosophy, public policy, or history discussion. Not so much at NWCU. For someone likes more in depth in policy and etc., need supplemental materials.
    2. The professors are mostly (maybe all) practicing attorneys so not all of them are going to be good at explaining the law. Of course, some are pretty good. What I found in my third years is that the best way to deal with this is to use a bar review program such as Barbri or Themis to supplement the learning.
    3. Law schools means a lot of work. Need to study about 20 hours a week for fours years so that's not easy. The school assigns a lot of reading material such as case books. Later on, pretty much everyone learns reading case book is a waste of time. Reading case summary, do a lot of multiple choice problem, and writing bar exam essay is far more effective in learning the law.
    4. After five years as a CA attorney, there are a few states that one can practice, for example, WA, and DC. It makes sense to check where you plan to live to see if there is such possibility. Of course, one can practice federal law such as immigration, bankruptcy, and etc. anywhere.
     
  11. SweetSecret

    SweetSecret Well-Known Member

    There's always what we should do versus what we actually do based on a sense of cultural traditions. I think some part of me keeps hoping I will find an "out" by other means.
     
  12. jonlevy

    jonlevy Active Member

    It took me a year of pretty much full time study to pass the California Bar on the first go.. Years ago Taft was just correspondence (read book if you had time or morely likely Sum & Substance outline), so the only way I could hope to pass the bar was memorize everything and do practice exam essay questions over and over with feedback from a study provider. Failing the Cali bar on the first try, means your odds of passing subsequently are even worse though passing on the second or thrid try is not all that uncommon.
     
  13. jonlevy

    jonlevy Active Member

    You can practice in any state with a California law license as long as it is limited to a federal administrative practice: Social security, Veterans disability, Immigration, Tax, SEC, Military Appeals. You can also work remotely with no problems with a California mail forwarding address. Law is increasingly becoming remote, even hearings.
     
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  14. SweetSecret

    SweetSecret Well-Known Member

    This is making a CalBar degree more tempting. I looked at the bar exam pass rates in CA. Many of the CA accredited and unaccredited schools do not have their pass rates listed. Apparently this is a result of not enough students from the school taking the exam. This makes it difficult to know which school might be best.
     
  15. Alpine

    Alpine Active Member

    The practicing of a profession within federal jurisdictions cuts across numerous disciplines, not just the law. The Federal government doesn't grant very
    many "federal licenses" so the military, federal courts, prisons, Indian Health Services, etc., need to hire those licensed in any State, District of Columbia, or U.S. Territory in medicine, nursing, pharmacy, law, etc. Off the top of my head, I can only think of a few federal professions licensed by the U.S. government to civilians such as flying an airplane (FAA licensed pilot) or commanding a cargo ship (US Coast Guard license through Merchant Marine), and the "enrolled agent" to prepare taxes. Any others? In theory, one who is licensed to practice law in the "unincorporated US territory of American Samoa" or Guam, as previously mentioned, should be able to be admitted to practice law in a federal court system or another federal system like the IRS or an FAA administrative setting.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2022
  16. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    Don't pay too much attention to overall pass rates. Those figures reflect the class as a whole and not individual members of that class.

    I suggest taking the LSAT. Some ABA schools are so cynical about admissions and USNWR rankings that they actually publish their mechanical formulas for awarding tuition reductions. They multiply the LSAT score by one weight factor and the UGPA by another weight factor, add the results, and apply the sum to a table. If the result for you is zero tuition you might think about going to that school.

    Beware of conditions on any so-called scholarship though. You may go for free the first year but then have to pony up full sticker price for years 2 and 3. Generally not worth it.
     
  17. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    Basic advice is to go to the state school where you are a resident. Except for California. Too expensive.
     
  18. jonlevy

    jonlevy Active Member

    The non ABA schools may look tempting because of cost but you get what you pay for. In reality these are for folks who for whatever reason (time restraints, job, poor grades, geography) can't attend an ABA school. I held a FT government job the whole time I did my degree at Taft; I could never have done that at a regular law school. But then I had to take off a year and memorize everything in order to pass the bar since I essentially had "skipped classes" for 4 years.
     
  19. SweetSecret

    SweetSecret Well-Known Member

  20. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    While working for the federal government in an agency where a lot of lawyers work, I had many colleagues who went to law school while employed full-time by the federal government.
     

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