FIRST Fully Online (ABA Accredited) Law Degree

Did you get to know any classmates? Maybe that was the average GPA at the school back then? I don't really know how law school grading works. I think the MBA programs usually require a B average, but no clue on law programs. Plus, with grade inflation these days at some schools...

 

For law school (at least NWCU and AISOL), the cumulative GPA for good standing is 2. For me, my first year is barely above 2 (that's after NWCU give me a 4 for one of the course after passing baby bar), second year GPA still less than 2.5, and the last two years above 3.0. As mentioned before, I spent a lot more time practicing actual bar exam essay. Some professor can be harsh for grading. For example, despite my barely passing first year grade at NWCU, I passed baby bar on my first try, with MBE over 90% and 75 average on the essays.
Also, it appears that law school does not apply curve and the professor could be harsh (at least the two places I mentioned).
I've done several other graduate degree and my GPA was all around 3.9.
NWCU has live video classes so there is opportunity to get to know some people.

 

As I read through the Northwestern Cal U accreditation statement, it says it is accredited by the California Bar. I am confused about the use of the word "accreditation." The school does not appear to be accredited nationally or regionally but rather recognized as an unaccredited school that is approved by the Bar of California. Apparently, the California Bar is empowered to call these schools "accredited", "recognized," or "approved." The Taft University of Law is nationally accredited by DEAC and uses the term recognized by the California Bar and makes the clear distinction: Accreditation and Affiliations | Taft Law School (taftu.edu)

Sorry, I'm simply confused by the use of these terms. Does that mean TaftU students need to take the "baby Bar" after one year of study because they are nationally accredited but only "recognized by" the California Bar and not accredited by the Bar? Whereas Northwestern Cal U only holds California Bar accreditation but students do not need to take the Baby Bar? Is recognized and accredited the same thing?

I think I would choose Taft University over Northwestern Cal U for the simple fact that one holds a nationally accredited JD after graduation whether they pass the Bar or not. I'm not convinced a JD from a Cal Bar accredited list but an unaccredited school will hold much value if one never passes the California Bar!

 

If a law school is accredited by California Bar, students do not need to take the baby bar. Of course, students in schools accredited by ABA do not need to take baby bar.
In the case of law school, DEAC or regional accreditation does not have much value if the school is not ABA accredited. Cal bar accreditation has the limited value of baby bar exemption.

 

CalBar makes the distinction between schools accredited by them, and not: https://www.calbar.ca.gov/Admissions/Law-School-Regulation/Law-Schools#cals

NWCU appears on the list of "Law schools in California accredited by the State Bar's Committee of Bar Examiners." So it is accredited by CalBar, and is not accredited by any of the regional or national accreditors. There are some schools in New York that are only accredited by NYBOR (New York Board of Regents) and not by any of the well-known regional or national accreditors.

 

It really doesn't say much about California Bar Accreditation if so many of these "accredited" law schools have dismal first-time pass rates! I prefer to attend an ABA law school that is regionally accredited but if I couldn't, I would go with the school that has both the Cal Bar and National accreditations.

Accreditation is supposed to mean something! For example, when accredited schools of nursing start seeing less than 70 percent pass rates on the NCLEX, they are in jeopardy of losing accreditation. Apparently, the Cal Bar treats it like a club that pays the fees regardless of pass rates.

 

You used the term "approved" above. The term is actually accredited. It is "Accredited by the State Bar's Committee of Bar Examiners".

Schools that are accredited must meet certain requirements including pass rates at a certain level by re-accreditation. This means they need to step up their game. From what little I have seen in discussion this is happening with Northwestern. So, accreditation has had a positive impact.

Remember the California Bar is arguably the toughest or one of the toughest in the nation.

 

I would agree it is one of the toughest in the nation, but the evidence indicates that the accreditation of law schools by the Cal Bar does not change the fact that the first-time pass rates are at a dismal level overall! Hence, the math doesn't add up! Are the accredited law schools inadequately preparing students? Is the Bar exam too hard? Are schools admitting every applicant that has a pulse?

 

Some schools do not use the A,B, C, D, F method. For example, at Duke, we have SP, HP, P, LP, F where SP - 4.0, HP - 3.5, P - 3.0, LP - 2.5, and F - 0.0.

 

Seems like European grading systems I have seen.

 

We also have anti-grade inflation grading distributions for the courses.

 

People need to be careful not to confuse schools approved to take the bar with schools accredited by the bar (two different things). In answer to your question, yes many of these schools have open admission. That is a tactic I think a number of distance learning institutions use. The result is that the institution gets tuition but the resources aren't overstretched because many of those students drop out. Law school is not for everyone. I imagine that many of these students have watched movies and seen TV and dream of being an attorney (prestige and money). But it is still Law School. From reading comments of students it is hard and it basically takes up your whole life at least spare time with managed time for other activities. High attrition.

I believe Concord at one time did not require the LSAT but did give incoming students a test. If they didn't do well those students were pushed towards the executive JD and told they were not qualified for the JD. That could be interpreted as a bit of a ripoff in terms of utility and cost.

From Reading information from students at schools like Northwestern they fail students or students failed to achieve certain levels and at a point are not allowed to re-enroll. The good thing with them specifically is although it is still money it is not super expensive. If you discover you don't have the ability or the drive and time to succeed you are not out tens of thousands of dollars.

 

I considered Concord and took their test but ultimately decided to go with NWCU as it's the best value.
If someone goes through that program and passes the bar, it's great value. If it does not work out, it's relatively small amount.

 

I agree. Concord has no real advantage over NWCU. Both are accredited by the California Bar and neither are accredited by the ABA (which matters more than institutional accreditation). In fact, NCWU has the advantage of being far less expensive AND have a longer track record of successful practicing attorneys.

 

Why do California law students have such a hard time passing the Bar exam...That's a question the Bar asks itself from time to time though there doesn't seem to be much interest in doing anything about it.

It isn't just the difference between ABA approved and CalBar accreditation. A few California ABA schools had to give up their ABA approval in favor of CalBar accreditation (LaVerne and Thomas Jefferson) or shut down altogether (Whittier) largely because their graduating classes failed the Bar exam too often. On the other hand, the UC system law schools' students don't seem to have much trouble passing.

The Texas State Bar years ago had some research done that supported the idea that the mean LSAT score and UGPA of an entering class was corrolated to that class' Bar performance. If this is the case in California, I suppose a problem with California students is that at some schools those students aren't adequately prepared to study law when they matriculate. If this is true, any well prepared individual student at Taft, say, or LaVerne shouldn't worry too much about that school's pass rate.

 

I remember a few years ago reading an article about an attorney from New York I believe. She was a well-known person and tried to take the California bar and failed it. If I remember correctly the issue of the difficulty of the California bar was brought up in the article.

There are theories including that California has a lot of lawyers and it is a bit of self protection for the market to try to ensure exclusion of some would be attorneys.

If you are a California bar approved school you have to take the baby bar after the first year and that wipes out a lot of would be attorneys from correspondence or distance learning schools. If you are California bar accredited then you no longer need to take the baby bar after the first year. Great in a way for students at distance learning schools like Concord and NWCU that hold accreditation but in another way you lose that interim point that lets you know whether you are learning and writing in the correct way to pass the bar. You still have of course grades and some people fail out because of that and just the relentless pace of legal study even at non-aba schools.

 

Quite so. That was the reason given for the Baby Bar. It was supposed to be a consumer protection device. But originally, the Baby Bar had to be passed to get credit for the first year of study. The student could not progress past the first year until the exam was passed. Not so now.

 

It is still a requirement for those schools that are Approved but not Accredited by the California Bar (and dreaded). I have seen students at the newly accredited schools post relief at avoiding it. The reality is that they still have to take the Bar at the end to become an attorney. Or they end up with a JD from a California Bar Examiners accredited school but cannot practice. I suppose that is something.

 

Here 's the main point. Will you need a job or do you feel able to practice law on your own after passing the bar? Without an ABA degree, chances of landing a job are slim or none even in California. Non ABA degrees can work out fine for people who already are involved in the court system as social workers, probation officers, law office clerks and paralegals. But many new lawyers lack the confidence, business sense, capital and focus to set up a practice on their own. The fact you are asking a lot of questions tells me that you better go with an ABA school regardless of any perceived tuition savings.

 

Not necessarily. It does have limitations obviously as ABA is a gatekeeper in some (most) states. That said I have seen posts by perfectly happy NWCU JD grads living outside of California and with successful law practices (eg Immigration Law). With a Bar pass in California you can be admitted in Federal Courts to practice in all other states in immigration law, military courts, Veterans Affairs and so on.