Faux Ph.D. Kay Larson Misleading Gullible Consumers

Dear Chip: Thank you for your response.

So, summarizing, your objections to Ms. Kay Larson seem to amount to this:

- her use of "Dr." before her name. You find this objectionable because
she does not have have a Ph.D degree from a DoE accredited institution.
- she went to Clayton College of Natural Health

The first, I guess you feel, amounts to misrepresentation or, worse yet, fraud, although "fraud" in a general sense, not in a specific legal sense (except in two states, where, I gather, it is a misdemeanor).

The second is simply guilt by association. CCNH is apparently guilty of some serious things ("three criminal actions against Clayton graduates for gross negligence"), and so Kay Larson is tainted by this.

If this is it, then I think you should re-evaluate what's been said on this site. I'm an academic and no lawyer, but the comments on Ms. Larson posted by registered user "MoonOpal" strike me as extremely serious. For example, he/she states:

"More graduates from a "college" such as Kingdom means more people dying due to the administration of various quack procedures and practices as well as delaying the process of real diagnosis (in chronic degenerative diseases such as cancer). This Kay Larson is doing something seriously wrong. Imagine the number of ill people who will grow worse and die due to the proliferation of these fake doctors."

These are very serious charges. The implication (as I read it) is that Ms. Larson has, by her "seriously wrong" conduct, been responsible for causing people to delay diagnosis for chronic disease and may even be responsible for people who are ill "growing worse and dying". Other posters ("ManiacCraniac") have taken this point and joined in.

What's striking about these charges, given their seriousness, is that MoonOpal does not provide any evidence for them. He/she doesn't give evidence of Ms. Larson having made people worse, having delayed diagnosis, much less having caused death. Indeed MoonOpal does not list: any actual complaints by clients, any proceedings by doctors or the Better Business Bureau, any testimony by potential students to the effect that they were swindled, duped or ill-advised, etc. No specific complaints about Ms Larson are made at all. We do however get an expanded attack in the form of a Photoshopped picture with the title "Scam Artist" imposed on Ms. Larson's picture. Again no names of people scammed, just charges.

Striking also is MoonOpal's desire to get other people at this site to login in a AllExperts and take up his/her crusade.

"One need not even register at All Experts to comment on Larson's answers, all he or she needs to do is click on the link that says "Add to this answer" and their reply will be posted. If I am only as knowledgeable about the laws and other things like the seniors here, I will go and do it myself. But since I am not, I urge you to please help these people at All Experts."

MoonOpal, for reasons of intellectual modesty, declines to make a personal appearance at the AllExperts site himself/herself.

Perhaps I'm simply cynical and have been around the internet too long, but I seriously wonder about people like MoonOpal who take up, not a general crusade against non-accredited schools, but very focused, personal crusades against specific people, on the basis of no apparent personal knowledge and no specific charges whatsoever. It is simply too easy in these days of internet anonymity, for an alternative health care competitor, with accreditation from a different school than Ms. Larson's, to launch an attack like this for purely business reasons. Sites like this one, which don't seem to ask many questions of their posters, make this easy. Notice these suspicions, unlike MoonOpal's. do not amount to a personal attack because the fact is that we (me and your readers) have no idea who MoonOpal is. This is quite unlike the case of Ms. Larson, who is out there on the net in plain sight.

Since you speculated on this in another part of the thread, let me disclose that I am neither Kay Larson nor her lawyer. I have however known her for many years. And, although you have no reason to believe me, whereas you have, apparently, excellent reasons to believe MoonOpal, allowing her to post personal attacks in the form of photoshopped photos, Kay Larson is a person of integrity and extremely good character. She has her opinions, obviously, about the medical industry and about current accreditation of alternative health care providers. I don't necessarily share them. But she is also pretty consistent about adding IMO to her advice on AllExperts, even in the selected quotes that MoonOpal repeats. And Kay Larson would never knowingly harm or endanger clients by giving them bad advice like counseling them against traditional diagnosis. Again, although you have no reason to believe me, my understanding is that Kay Larson has done a lot of good.

Finally, since this is an area of concern to you, my understanding is that Ms. Larson plans to redo her website removing all reference to her degrees (or "degrees", as you would have it). This should give you reason to celebrate. Some of your posters have written of finding this all "entertaining" - a form of blood sport, I guess. Shame on them.

 

I don't want to get into an argument with an anonymous person who has some sort of undisclosed-but-close relationship with Ms. Larson. And I don't speak for, endorse, or otherwise offer any judgment on OpalMoon's comments. But here are some thoughts:

First, I see nothing in MoonOpal's posts accusing Ms. Larson of directly causing harm. However, in talking about unwonderful schools, there are thousands of people, claiming naturopathy degrees, Ph.Ds in nutrition, or other impressive-sounding credentials from schools such as CCNH whose degrees are near worthless.

Hundreds of thousands of patients are treated by these unlicensed, unqualified people. I've run into quite a few treated by these people for cancer, arthritis, heart disease, and more. Their trust, often, was on the basis of the claimed degrees and credentials.

Sadly, in many cases, the results were disastrous. Cancers that grew faster because of vitamin regimens that caused it to grow. Conditions that would have responded easily and quickly to conventional allopathic treatment that, due to delays, became impossible to treat. Take Steve Jobs: everyone, including Steve, eventually admitted that his decision to refuse surgery and try holistic methods for 9 months allowed the disease to spread, and cost him probably years of health, or even a potential cure. Stories like this are heartbreaking.

Schools like Kingdom, CCNH, Westbrook, and other unwonderful, unaccredited programs are churning out these unqualified people, most of whom probably mean well, genuinely want to help, and who honestly, in their hearts, believe they are doing amazing and wonderful work. And in some cases, that may be true. Holistic medicine when used appropriately, by an appropriately qualified practitioner can be lifesaving. But often, these people do not know their limits, and that is incredibly dangerous.

I also get tired when people like Kay Larson spout bullshit Big Pharma or accreditors preventing holistic medine from being taught. Nonsense. For the record, I know quite a few MDs and DOs and RNPs whose practices are entirely holistic medicine, but who, by virtue of their training, understand and treat the whole person, from both an allopathic and holistic perspective. Hundreds of quality, accredited courses and seminars on holistic medicine exist. No one need go to a bogus or unwonderful school.

Finally, this thread isn't just about Kay Larson. I think people at DegreeInfo (OpalMoon isn't the only one) get irritated by people claiming a given degree when the degree isn't legit. DegreeInfo has a long history of discussing bogus credentials in medicine and other areas where it's a public safety issue. In fact, a big TV news show (can't remember which) did an expose years back, with the help of John Bear and the DegreeInfo contributors, on people in important positions with bogus degrees.

So I very seriously doubt that OpalMoon is secretly a competitor of Kay Larson seeking competitive advantage; more likely, s/he simply doesn't like people misrepresenting their credentials.

This is why schools like CCNH, Kingdom, and their cohorts are fundamentally a very bad idea, at least if they are representing their graduates as qualified to treat/counsel/coach/advise on health related issues. Because, no matter how you frame it, an unaccredited correspondence degree is not a credible education when you are dealing with people's lives.

Onto the topic of treating/coaching/advising/counseling people on health issues when one has no credentials to do so:

Perhaps it wasn't clear from my previous posts, but I have concerns about anyone who "graduated" from *any* unaccredited ND or nutrition program holding themselves out as qualified to treat (or "coach") people for any sort of disorder or illness.

I authored clinical materials used to train medical doctors on Gerson Therapy. I've probably read way more books and attended professional seminars on medicine, pathology, oncology, biochemistry, and other nontraditional healing methods than any typical graduate of any unaccredited naturopathic or holistic health program. I've read hundreds of clinical studies in medical and scientific journals back when I was working with the Gerson Institute. I often advised medical doctors on clinical administration of the Gerson Therapy. So with that background, I have a fair degree of knowledge about various holistic therapies and some allopathic treatment protocols for various diseases.

But... I would not hold myself out as qualified to treat or "coach" or "advise" anyone about health-related issues, and certainly not to offer myself up publicly as qualified to do so. And I'd never go to an unwonderful mail-order school with a substandard curriculum to get a near-worthless doctoral degree and then use that degree to essentially misrepresent my education and qualifications in marketing myself as qualified to work with people.

Now... that said, I realize that California (wrongly, in my opinion) passed a law that allows unlicensed people to essentially practice medicine without a license. Being that is the case, I think it is possible to do so ethically, but I do not think that Kay Larson is, at present, doing so.

There is a wonderful holistic practitioner in the Sacramento area that I've worked with. In her intake process, she is very up front (both in her discussion at the start and in her written documentation) about the fact that she is an unlicensed practitioner operating under the "freedom of choice" laws, and that she does not have any formal training. She doesn't claim to be a Ph.D or ND or anything of the sort. But she has had good success with a number of difficult-to-treat conditions. I have no problem with her, because she is clear and non-deceptive about her education, what she offers, and where she stands.

Ms. Larson, on the other hand, significantly misrepresents her credentials; I'm sure her clients don't know she earned her degree from an unaccredited correspondence school that shut down because it was unable to qualify for even the second-tier accreditation standards of DETC. Furthermore, she is apparently involved in running an organization that is in the business of providing questionable credentials ("board certification") to holistic practitioners. And, again, there's no indication that there's any rigor whatsoever to the credentialing process (nor could there be, if it is offering credentials to people with unaccredited degrees) , nor is there any meaningful or recognized oversight of this organization, as far as I can tell.

Neither of these are the hallmark of an honest, ethical practitioner who wants to clearly and non-deceptively offer holistic health services.

Now... it is possible that Ms. Larson does great work and is genuinely knowledgable. It is encouraging to hear that she is dropping the mention of her unaccredited credentials. That's a really important step toward redeeming credibility. If she were to also drop affiliation with the bogus credentialing organization, that would be another huge step showing that she genuinely wants to honestly represent the services she is providing.

Basically, from my perspective, it comes down to integrity. If Ms. Larson represented herself in the same way that the Sacramento practitioner I referred to does, and cut out the BS about unaccredited schools offering better education, then I doubt anyone here would have any objections to what she does. I would guess that even OpalMoon would withdraw his or her objections as well. It's all about being truthful and non-deceptive, and allowing clients to make the choice to work with someone based on honest information made available to them.

And the option is also there to take the knowledge and skill she has and go back to school and turn her knowledge into a legitimate credential; with the (legitimate) degrees she has, it's clear she can handle a real academic load, so she could, for example, go back to school and earn a PA-C or RNP degree which would give her the licensure and knowledge to actually be able to treat people without tapdancing with language and operating under the "freedom of choice" act.

We've had a number of DegreeInfo contributors over the years who started out defending their bogus credentials, and eventually realized their error, and went on to get legitimate credentials, and do a lot of good in the world. I am certain Ms. Larson could be one of them, if she wished to do so.

 

Amazing insight, Chip! I never knew you were THAT FAMILIAR with alternative medicine!:yikes:

Unfortunately, it looks like faux Ph.D. Kay Larson has added yet another unwonderful service to her "naturopathic practice" and giving out "board certification" to graduates of unaccredited correspondence schools who, according to her, are much better than graduates of accredited schools. The latest racket is ACCREDITATION. That's right, Non-Doctor Kay is now an academic accreditor of "natural health schools" as you can confirm here The American Council of Holistic Medicine | Natural Health Certification | Naturopathy Certification – School Accreditations. I also took a screenshot of the page if ever she would decide to delete and deny it in the future.

For the record, this thread has now been viewed 3,127 times. We are talking about thousands here and not just a few hundreds.:dance: I sincerely believe that this thread has done a lot of service to potential victims of Larson, KCNH, ACHM, and the like. Hopefully, the number of views will continue to increase.

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What Matters Most

I've been interested in and living alternative health life style for over 40 years. Obviously, I'm old guy, but I have been considering a degree in Alternative Medicine and stumbled upon this site. I was very surprised to find this thread on Dr Kay Larson. My wife and I have been going to her for several years and have referred lots of family and friends to her. My wife and I as well as all we have referred feel blessed to find her and receive exceptional care, guidance and support from her.
So, while I can't speak with authority about the education comments listed here, I can and will tell you that if you live in Southern California and need help with your health or someone you love and/or care about does, I strongly urge you to seek out Dr Kay Larson. Again, I can't speak with authority about her education, but I absolutely can regarding her knowledge and ability to help those that seek her help with health issues.
Now back to my investigation into degrees in Alternative Health.

 

You are being taken care of by a fraud.

Awesome. Not.

 

It isn't entertaining at all, it is a matter of academic and professional ethics, honesty and integrity.

 

Hi Kay! How are you doin these days?

 

I smell a troll!!

 

For what it's worth, I thought it was worth bumping this thread. Back in June, a poster in this thread, who claimed to be a "close personal friend" of Ms. Lawson said that she was re-doing her website and removing all mention of her bogus credentials.

It seems that statement was half true.

She has redone her website, but she's not removed any of the discussion of her credentials.

I guess a leopard doesn't change its spots.

 

The American Council of Holistic Medicine a.k.a. Kay Larson Bogus Board Certification Mill a.k.a. Kay Larson Bogus Accreditation Mill is now completely run by none other than Non-Dr. Kay Larson. The medical doctor that Kay Larson used as a dummy has completely disappeared from the About page and the whole board certification and academic accreditation scam now rests on the name of KCNH "ND" Kay Larson.

 

Update on Kay Larson's bogus certification board and bogus academic accrediting organization self-styled as "American Council of Holistic Medicine." Another medical doctor (since the first one left her), or at least this is what Kay Larson claims her new partner to be here, has been duped to become its executive director. Here is the Linked In profile of Alicia C. Omaña. Note that the Linked In profile does not advertise her as an MD but as an NMD only (from the unaccredited Kingdom College of Natural Health), and by the looks of it I think she only finished pre-med.

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So, obviously you are a fan, have been following for some time. Is she breaking the law? Misleading people like many other advertisers. Don't get me wrong. In my opinion she's better off gone, but what exactly are you alleging?

 

Are you questioning OpalMoon or Chip? Chip has been just as active in this thread as anyone else, obviously he thinks it is important to keep track as well.

 

Hi Kizmet! I am obviously not a fan, just concerned about the potential victims of this scam artist, hence the vigilance to keep track.

First of all, I do believe she is breaking the law by practicing naturopathic medicine without license in a licensed state. One needs to be a graduate of a CNME accredited institution and an NPLEX passer to be able to practice naturopathic medicine in California. Larson is trying to camouflage her illegal practice by claiming to do nutritional advising only (she is not even a qualified nutritionist to give nutritional advising for a fee.), yet she takes on patients with chronic degenerative diseases and perform pseudo diagnostic procedures and make them go through crackpot pseudo therapeutic regimens. These people need to be seen by qualified professionals ASAP! What she is doing here is delaying their diagnosis and treatment and taking money from them while doing that! Larson even wrote a book on how to dodge state laws and practice naturalistic medicine without license. The book is aimed for graduates of unaccredited distance learning colleges like Clayton and Kingdom.

Secondly, you are right, she is breaking the law not only by false advertisement but by outright fraud, like offering "board certification" to unlicensed "naturopaths" and academic "accreditation" through her ACHM, which is not recognized by the State of California as a professional regulatory board and not recognized by the US Department of Education as an academic accreditor of any sort.

Third, if this Alicia C. Omaña is, as evident in her Linked In profile, not a licensed medical doctor but just finished pre-med from Northeast University School of Medicine in Tampico, México and then went to the unaccredited correspondence diploma mill Kingdom College of Natural Health for her "NMD" (a made-up title) then Larson is defrauding the people again by posting false information in her website with hopes of increasing the credibility of her ACHS scam in the eyes of gullible people.

These things, I believe, are worth keeping track of and posting publicly because lives of potential victims are at stake here, not just their money.

 

Many people would say that if a person is working in the medical/health care field despite a lack of licensure that it would justify turning them in to the appropriate authorities. Is this something that you've considered?

 

This reminds me of the Christian "universities" that fail to seek regional accreditation because they "don't want government influence on their curriculum." They go on to act like the reason they are not RA is actually voluntary on their part.

 

Lance - There are two problems that I'm having with your post. Maybe 2.5.

0.5) They do not "fail" to seek regional accreditation, it is a deliberate decision, not a failure.

1) You go on to say, "They go on to act like the reason they are not RA is actually voluntary on their part." You are suggesting that they are "acting," as in pretending or lying. Do you have proof of this? Please don't state an opinion as if it was a fact.

2) Regional Accreditation actually IS voluntary on their part. There is no requirement of RA or NA or any other A.

I am not a big fan of schools that take the religious exemption but I am not willing to simply condemn them all simply for following the existing legal structure.

 

Kizmet,

Your point is well taken. I am not condemning all unaccredited schools, either. As a matter of fact, I clearly recognize that there are unaccredited schools that offer rigorous programs. I am condemning those who claim to use religious exemption as an excuse to be deceptive. Furthermore, I am condemning those who use deception by hiding under other bogus accrediting associations or whose faculty members (including the "administration") who received all of their degrees from their own school.

 

We also are interested in these things and so if you run into any of these entities please let us know.

 

Wow, there are so many of them, the majority of which have probably already been exposed on this forum. One that just came to mind that is especially blatant is Cornerstone University. It's already shady because it is "accredited" by ACI and affiliated with the NCCA, but perhaps its worse offense is that it took the name of a legitimate university without even the attempt to change the word university to college.

The REAL, legitimate Cornerstone University is located in Grand Rapids, MI:
Cornerstone University | Build a Life That Matters

The phony Cornerstone University has an office in Louisiana:
Cornerstone University - Excellence in Education Since 1985