Eneb question again,

Discussion in 'Business and MBA degrees' started by rdl1051, Nov 19, 2023.

  1. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Sigh... I've had to answer my own question - once again. From here: https://sobat.org/accreditation/
    1. First, get a printout of your PDF certificate through a colour laser printer.
    2. Make a photocopy of your printed certificate.
    3. Take this to any notary public or authorised department to get this certified.
    4. If they need to verify the certificate, they can verify it on our website or through email.
    I think this web-page is oddly-named. It's called "Accreditation" but as is freely admitted here, SOBAT doesn't have any.

    Anyway, the process above "authenticates" the degree - makes it real, i.e. not a forgery. Just like an apostille. What it does NOT do is give the degree any standing, or anything similar to accreditation, or Ministry of Education approval. The school has permission to award degrees, but the degrees themselves neither have, nor need, approval. Permission is the key to legality.

    Whoever gets a job with a SOBAT degree, or uses one successfully, to enrol in a mainstream university (anywhere) -- is super lucky. If you're feeling THAT lucky - you should head for the casino or the track, RIGHT NOW. The right cards, or the right horse could put you in Harvard, money-wise. As long as you don't mention your SOBAT degree.
    Rachel83az, tadj and Dustin like this.
  2. Dustin

    Dustin Well-Known Member

    I thought you were joking, but those are literally the steps listed on the website. Plus this gem: "Some countries require legalisation / verification / authentication / notarisation of the foreign degrees. The School of Business and Trade does not offer such services so please do not contact us." I'm a commissioned notary here in Iowa. A notary stamp is only proof that the person who is identified on the document was actually the one that signed it, or in the case of a certified copy that I made the copy. As you noted, that's not proof of anything. Weird that they include that on their site at all.
    Suss and tadj like this.
  3. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Not really. There are places in the world, including European countries, that rely quite heavily on authentication. More than we do. It's proof a SOBAT degree is actually awarded by SOBAT - not a forgery. Some people in the SOBAT orbit need that - even if it's useless in giving the degree any kind of standing.

    If you get a flood of these in Iowa - let us know. :)
    Suss and Vicki like this.
  4. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    Once I was interested in a job in Argentina, the job required me to send apostilles of my degrees. There are two type of apostilles, one type is called "authentication" in which the apostille authenticates that the university actually granted the degree and the other type is just "notary" apostille in which the apostille just authenticates that the signature of the notary is real. The first type was very expensive and tedious for my UK and Australian degrees so I ended getting just an apostille for the notarized photocopies. The Argentinian employer accepted the apostille.
    So there is a loophole in the apostille system, technically speaking if the employer asks for the right apostille (authentication) then the apostille authenticates that the degree was granted by the university but the second one can be a fake degree notarized by a real notary but still a fake degree.
    Schools like the one your are referring profits from the loophole. Apostilles are slowly being replaced by more secure systems, in Australia many universities provide e-signatures to authenticate degrees.
  5. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    This is obfuscation.

    The important thing in our discussion was - and still is, an apostille can say the degree is genuine, i.e awarded by the Uni. named thereon, but neither type of apostille says the degree is any good - i.e. that it has standing or is recognized by authorities. Apostilles don't cover that - either way.

    I hope this clarifies - once and for all. Real? Yes. Quality, standing etc.? No. Not so much as a peep. Thank you.
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2023
  6. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    And yes the "loophole" could let fake degrees through. And all types of apostille can let any number of unrecognized, unaccredited, milled or whatever degrees through. They don't deal with quality, recognition, accreditation or Ministry approval etc.
  7. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    In the US is a similar story, you can get an apostille of a notarized copy of your degree so the apostille only authenticates that the notary is real. However, if you want an authenticated apostille of your degree, the apostille actually needs to verify that the officials that signed the degree are real officials of the university and this has to be granted by an authority where the university resides.
    the Apostille is meant to authenticate public documents such as a birth certificate, marriage certificate, etc. A notarized copy is a public document and so it is a university degree. If the Apostille authenticates the signatures on the university degree, it is saying that the university is real and the officials are real. However, in countries where universities need minister of education approval like in Australia and the UK to operate, the apostille validates that the university has minister approval as it is saying that the signatures are from real officials that operate a university that would need minister of education approval. But in the case of the USA where anyone can open a university, the apostille authenticates an official of a university but it does not authenticate that the university is approved by the minister.
    The loophole is in a way is ignorance on how the apostille works but the apostille itself is not fraud, it is just a mechanism to authenticate public documents.
  8. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    I agree. If I present an apostille for a Harvard University degree, it is saying that I hold a University degree from Harvard if the apostille authenticates signatures on the harvard certificate. If I hold a degree from the University of Sedona, it says that I hold a degree from the University of Sedona but it does say that University of Sedona is an accredited university.
    It just prevents people from presenting forged copies of a degree but the employer needs to validate the degree institution is accredited.
    The abuse can be mainly for religious institutions like the UoS, if a person is applying to teach english as a second language in Argentina with a degree from UoS and the apostille says that the person holds the degree, the employer might think he or she is qualified because in Argentina only minister of education recognized institutions can be called universities.
  9. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Yes. exactly what I've said here at DI a hundred times (or more). Thank you.
    I think my previous post in the same thread covers the same territory.
    Looks like my hope has finally been realized. Thanks again.

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