Ed.D vs. DBA

Discussion in 'Education, Teaching and related degrees' started by DonEducation, Dec 21, 2016.

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  1. DonEducation

    DonEducation New Member

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    Hello Everyone,

    I would like your feedback and input. I'm in my mid 30s and have been practicing accounting for the past 15 years. I am not a CPA, but I am currently a financial controller for a small manufacturing company. I received my BS in Management at a small college and received my MBA (with an 18-credit accounting concentration) about 2 years ago from another small local AACSB accredited college.

    I would like to teach accounting courses (and open to an administrative role after a few years in academia) because there are tons of opportunities in my area (New York). But I would first like to get some sort of doctoral degree so I can have "more doors available." Therefore, which of the following degrees should I pursue:

    1) Ed.D with Columbia University (Adult Learning & Leadership Concentration)

    2) Ed.D with Columbia University (Higher & Postsecondary Education)

    3) Ed.D with University of Pennsylvania (CLO Concentration)

    4) DBA with Kennesaw State University (required residency every five to six weeks)

    I am not looking for tenure, but an opportunity to adjunct a few accounting courses per term and possibly adjunct regularly within 10 years or so.

    Thanks.
     
  2. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly

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    If you're worthy of teaching accounting to others, you should be able to calculate ROI. If there are already tons of opportunities for you to teach where you live, then what is the advantage of spending six figures and all your spare time for the next three or more years on a doctorate at all?
     
  3. TomE

    TomE New Member

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    While the first 3, Ivy League options have a bit more name recognition than KSU, if you want to teach accounting/business courses, why are you considering a doctorate in an education field? With a DBA you would be able to assume an admin role and you education would be more relevant to the courses that you would be teaching.

    Also, I second what Steve says. It may be worth applying to some positions and reaching out to contacts that you have at local institutions for a few (~6) months first to get an idea of the possibilities. If you're able to secure some teaching gigs in this span of time, this may influence your thoughts on pursuing a doctorate.
     
  4. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

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    I'm guessing that Steve and Tom have given good advice above. As to the original question, I'm not sure an EdD in Leadership, etc. is really going to put you ahead much if the goal is to teach accounting. It's not my thing but to me it seems irrelevant. If it comes down to a choice, do the DBA.
     
  5. Stanislav

    Stanislav Active Member

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    Kennesaw State sounds like a great option.
    I myself entertain an idea of teaching Accounting. Of course my situation is different, and I need to start accounting education from scratch. If it ever comes to getting a doctorate, I cannot afford any of your options.
    EdD programs you mentioned only make sense if opportunities you have in mind require an Ivy League degree. If you need AACSB degree, except Kennesaw, there is the triple-accredited Grenoble Ecole de Management; I believe it's somewhat cheaper than Kennesaw.

    If you just need "any kind of doctorate": how about Columbia Southern? It's RA and affordable. It should be enough for adjunct teaching (of course in Accounting, you could possibly get in just with your MBA). I'm not sure about admin: traditional academia tend to frown upon distance-only schools, and especially doctorates. In smaller schools they may not care.

    Another tantalizing program is Heriot-Watt University. It's surprisingly affordable. The program is not AACSB or AMBA accredited, but the university has a very decent reputation overall. According to Times Higher Education, it's in 401-500 tier globally; that would be comparable to Georgia State or Lehigh. Not too shabby. It's fully distance and seems to be very well thought out. I must say I'm tempted.
     
  6. DonEducation

    DonEducation New Member

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  7. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

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    I think you mean California Southern? Columbia Southern is DETC.
     
  8. Stanislav

    Stanislav Active Member

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    Absolutely right, California Southern. My bad.
     
  9. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

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    And my bad with DETC, that should be DEAC. :biggrin:
     
  10. FTFaculty

    FTFaculty Member

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    There are a boatload of distance DBA programs. One consideration, though, if you're looking to move into accounting academia, I'd lean towards a program that has an academic research focus. Not sure some of the DBAs fit the bill, excepting, perhaps, Heriot-Watt, which does appear to be more like say, Louisiana Tech's (non-DL) academic research-oriented DBA, which is essentially a PhD, than the more practitioner-research programs such as Creighton, Kennesaw, Florida, etc. Caveat: I know nothing about these programs other than what I read on the net, just making assumptions based on that. Most academic doctorates are more about the research skills than the subject matter. It's not like you're taking loads of classes in accounting when you pursue an accounting PhD anyway. It's about learning how to conduct academic research. The research component is more important than the subject matter.

    At the end of the day, though, there are a number of doctorates that might get your foot in the academic door with accounting because the field's so starved for professors and the shortage keeps growing.
     
  11. Ted Heiks

    Ted Heiks Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member

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    Columbia Southern www.colsouth.edu is RA?
     
  12. Ted Heiks

    Ted Heiks Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member

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    Why the bleep would you want to do an EdD if you want to be an accounting professor?
     
  13. FTFaculty

    FTFaculty Member

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    A few guesses:

    Because he can't feasibly take off four to five years from his career to enter a full time accounting PhD program and make $25K or so a year on the measly stipend.

    Because there are no AACSB accredited distance accounting PhDs available in the world.

    Because he knows there are EdD programs that are available in distance mode, some of them pretty good, such as Columbia's and Penn's.

    Because he knows that with his otherwise solid professional accounting experience and credentials and accredited MBA, if he can just add some sort of doctorate to the mix, particularly one from a prestigious Ivy League university, this will be enough to put him into a position to teach given how desperate universities are for qualified people in accounting.

    Just my guess. It also might be the case that he was ignorant of most of these things but came here looking for opinions from experts--which it looks like he got, including from you.

    But frankly, for what he wants to do, adjuncting, I don't know why he's not qualified to do what he wants without an additional qualification.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 1, 2017
  14. DonEducation

    DonEducation New Member

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    FTFaculty,

    I'm going to use Ted Heiks word above: you are a "bleeping" genius!

    On a serious note, you are correct on why I considered an Ed.D to teach accounting. However, you missed another reason: cost. For example, I estimated that an Ed.D from Columbia University will cost me approximately $75K, while a DBA from Kennesaw University or Temple University will cost me approximately $130K (including travel, etc.). In addition, I am very interested in higher education (accreditation, technological advances, admissions, program-structure, etc.). For the past 8 years, I have "gone out of my way" to learn more about the industry (by reading numerous articles). But my passion has always been to teach accounting courses.

    Finally, to answer your question: I consider myself qualified to adjunct without an additional qualification (especially where I'm located). But as I originally mentioned, I would like to possibly adjunct regularly within 10 years or so and I'm also open to an administrative role after a few years in academia. In other words, I am just looking ahead and do not want to "fall short" on a future opportunity because I did not get the additional qualification.
     
  15. FTFaculty

    FTFaculty Member

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    It's not unheard of for an academic in accounting to have a doctorate from a different field. One of my colleagues, a tenured prof making $100K+, got a PhD in economics and otherwise had a career similar to yours, except in the public accounting sector. Our last FT accounting search included a candidate who had her MBA or MAcc (can't remember which) and an EdD. We didn't hire her, but obviously thought enough of her to offer her an on campus interview for a full time job (and we are AACSB).

    By the way, if you have a desire to do more than adjunct, the pay does range $100K a year up to $220K for tenure track accounting profs.
     
  16. Ted Heiks

    Ted Heiks Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member

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    Hmm. If I recall correctly, there was a recent accounting thread that said that Kennesaw State University and Jacksonville State University offer online/DL/short residency AACSB DBAs in Accounting.
     
  17. FTFaculty

    FTFaculty Member

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    So far as I know that's not the case, at least near as can be told from the website. Both appear to be like most DBA programs, practitioner-based and vaguely aligned with business leadership. Nothing wrong with that, and I'm sure someone could do their research into the area of accounting leadership and maybe an arrangement could be made to have an accounting concentration offered--I have no way of knowing, even though I teach at a uni not far from either, don't know anyone very well at either of those b-schools.

    But even if the degree was specifically entitled "DBA in Accounting" I don't know how that would refute my claim that "there are no AACSB accredited distance accounting PhDs available in the world."
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 3, 2017
  18. Anthony Pina

    Anthony Pina New Member

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    DBA vs....

    Very interesting thread. I echo the sentiment of many that faculty with accounting doctorates are extremely difficult to find. If you are in one of the 11 southern states, a masters degree in accounting will typically allow you to teach courses at the undergraduate level only. Teaching at the masters level or above requires a doctorate (preferably in the area to be taught). The degree title really does not matter, as there are many faculty--both full-time and adjunct with DBAs.

    I wouldn't be concerned about the degree title. A DBA will work just fine. A group of colleagues and I conducted the first large-scale national study of DBA vs. PhD programs that were both regionally and programmatically accredited (AACSB, IACBE and ACBSP). Notwithstanding the claims that the DBA is an "applied" or "practitioner" degree, we found little difference between DBA and PhD programs. Also, we found a few hundred faculty with DBAs. Now, we were looking at management and general business programs, but in our data collection, we actually noticed a higher quantity of accounting faculty with DBAs. That may become a follow-up study.
     
  19. FTFaculty

    FTFaculty Member

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    Our last hire, in the area of taxation, has a DBA from Middling State U. He makes over $150K.
     
  20. Anthony Pina

    Anthony Pina New Member

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    Clayton Christensen of Harvard, the guru of disruptive innovation, has a DBA and it does not seem to have disadvantaged him at all. I have been in a similar situation. I started a Ph.D. at one institution, accepted a job transfer, and finished with an Ed.D. at another institution. It has not been an issue in my career at all. Part of our study was to look at whether the U.S. Department of Education, the six regional accrediting agencies and the three programmatic agencies (AACSB, ACBSP and IACBE) distinguished between the D.B.A. and Ph.D. in business. Spoiler alert: they treated the two degrees identically.
     

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