Dr. Jill Biden

Discussion in 'Political Discussions' started by SteveFoerster, Dec 13, 2020.

  1. foobar

    foobar Member

    um, the Ed.D. is a research degree. Unlike the J.D. , M.D., D.D.S, etc, it requires a dissertation.

    And nobody has mentioned so far that physicians, lawyers and dentists are awarded Bachelors degrees elsewhere in the world that are considered equivalent to the U.S. doctorate.
  2. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

  3. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    My friend completed in Soviet Union veterinarian degree in 5 years (Agricultural Institute)
    Here in the US he passed all the exams and became a DVM, Doctor of Veterinary Medicine.
  4. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    That's my understanding too.
  5. chrisjm18

    chrisjm18 Well-Known Member

  6. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    It would be unfair to cast a negative light on Epstein for criticisms he hasn't given to others outside the topic. At this point, Dr. Jill Biden is more timely/topical so it's understandable for her to be discussed now as she is about to be the First Lady of the United States.

    I disagree with Epstein's criticism and find it ridiculous, but I would still disagree with it and find it just as ridiculous if it were directed at a male, or a person of color, and I wouldn't assume he is criticizing those people's usage of their credentials simply because of their gender or ethnicity unless I had some prior history of that behavior from him to draw from.

    If this Epstein character has a known history of misogyny, then we should not only be suspicious but feel pretty confident of what his intent is. But assuming he doesn't have such a history and we choose to ascribe that intent to him, where does this end?

    We need to do all we can to resist living in a society where certain groups cannot be criticized. I'm against all forms of misogyny, misandry, racism, sexism, etc. But I'm also very careful about what I attach those labels to, and I'm deeply troubled about the reality that my concern is being shared less and less every day, as we're reaching a point where we're engaging in an unofficial but equally powerful repeal of our right to free speech through overreactions and worst-case conclusion-jumping. We'll know that we're in the right place when a critical piece like that doesn't trigger misogyny charges, but we'll never get there if every critical piece like that triggers misogyny charges. That means the work still left to be done is not one-sided, it's universal, but everyone has gotten caught up into an endless loop of finger-pointing and can't admit that.
  7. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    None of which is "teaching."
  8. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    If only overt statements are to be counted, then a lot of racism and sexism gets a "pass."

    It is true that a lack of evidence is not evidence, we can still form an informed opinion based on what we know. Here are a few things.

    First, the tone was incredibly condescending. (You could even let the "kiddo" remark slide--Joe uses it a lot--and the editorial would be horribly condescending.) Why? Is it because she's a woman? Or, more accurately, taking the role of First Lady? After all, he calls that out. What did it have to do with her use of the title? (Or, more accurately, others' use of it.)

    Second, and related to the first, the guy isn't a doctorate holder himself. That kind of "not a real doctor" nonsense always seems to come from those who don't hold the designation. Again, would he condescend to a male?

    Third, where was his complaint about Dr Lynne Cheney? Do the wives of conservatives get a pass?

    I don't think that editorial was born from sexism. No, it was born from politics and the need to put down those who defeated your candidate. (Funny how he didn't bother to mention it until after Joe Biden's victory.) But did it drip with sexism? I think so.
  9. Acolyte

    Acolyte Active Member

    So, Epstein taught at Northwestern for 30 years and never had occasion to come across someone with a doctorate that wasn't an M.D.? My heavens! Did he lodge a formal complaint that those folks were using their rightful academic titles in his presence? However did he survive the countless microaggressions of students and colleagues addressing those that weren't medical doctors as "doctor"? I say, he has been silent enough on this topic! It was time to act - swiftly! decisively! He should not have to have his mediocre manliness threatened any longer! He is a hero. No one calls me "doctor" either, damnit. And I have a penis! # metoo.
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  10. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    From what I'm told, one can select a type of the Ed.D program.


    There's no standard Ed.D. program. With specializations in various topics, admissions geared toward different demographics, and program lengths for both patient learners and those in a hurry, each program provides something different.
    The list is long, some specialize in K12 others in leadership etc.

  11. TeacherBelgium

    TeacherBelgium Active Member

    I think his remark was more rooted in misogyny than anything else. He wouldn't have said that to a male with a doctorate. Only to a female. Some men still have allergic reactions to women having more success than them. Sad and unfair but true. Jill Biden is a class act though. She carries herself with so much integrity and stays so calm under it all.
    Johann likes this.
  12. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Any self-deluding individual who says Epstein's diatribe is not misogynistic must have skipped the first paragraph. It drips. Condescension and misogyny.

    "Madame First Lady—Mrs. Biden—Jill—kiddo: ... “Dr. Jill Biden” sounds and feels fraudulent, not to say a touch comic..."

    And yes, as the accused misogynist says, Mrs. Biden has probably never delivered a baby. But she has given birth to them. How's that, Mr. Epstein?
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2020
  13. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    I should say she has given birth to one - her and Joe's daughter, Ashley. She helped raise Joe's children from his previous marriage and has said she always considered them as her own.
  14. Thorne

    Thorne Active Member

    Isn't "kiddo" in reference to Joe Biden's acceptance speech at the 2012 DNC where he called his wife kiddo? There's a t-shirt online with a phrase of Biden pointing and saying, "That's where you're wrong, kiddo!"

    He may be a misogynist, I've got no idea, but the idea I got from the list of titles is that it is very difficult to come up with exactly what to call the First Lady, but maybe that's because I remember Joe's 2012 speech and found it amusing when someone added kiddo to the list of names she's been called publicly before.

    Regardless of the misogyny or lack thereof, it's at least academic elitism to prevent a doctor from calling themselves Dr. So and So regardless, so I'm not backing him up, just making sure we criticize him for the right reasons.

    Plus, she really doesn't need to be called, "Madame First Lady Dr. Jill Biden," it would be a bit much. Even Woodrow Wilson, a POTUS with a PhD, didn't go by "President Dr. Woodrow Wilson" or "President Woodrow Wilson, PhD," because the title of President or First Lady, in my opinion, should not have to contend for space on the letterhead with a miniscule title like "Doctor"
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  15. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    My apologies. The "Kiddo" thing went right over my head. My opinion of Mr. Epstein hasn't changed one bit, though. I didn't get the same vibe from the list of titles - they seemed to be in diminishing order of respect. I have an idea that may have been deliberate.

    Indeed, it would. I think we can all agree on that.

    Your entire comment is well-reasoned, Thorne - despite any disagreement on my part. Refreshingly so.
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2020
    Thorne likes this.
  16. Steve Levicoff

    Steve Levicoff Well-Known Member

    Let's see if I understand this . . . A dude with only a bachelor's degree is presuming to pontificate on the proper protocol for addressing someone with an earned, accredited doctorate.

    Gee, that kind of sounds like the pontifications of some of the people here at DegreeInfo, except that a few of them don't even have a bachelor's degree. Ne c'est pas? :D
  17. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Indeed, it would. I think we can all agree on that. I note that Epstein didn't use this as a complete phrase, even in mockery, in his article. Can you explain why this is a concern? I just never thought anyone in the First Lady's orbit would be gauche enough to mess up so thoroughly.
  18. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    There's a sign at the DI entrance, I believe. "Bloviators welcome, Pontificators adored." I'm sure YOU've seen it, Dr. Steve. :)

    No specific knowledge or background in ANYTHING has been required...ever ... n'est-ce pas?
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2020
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  19. Thorne

    Thorne Active Member

    Why thank you! :)
    Yeah, I didn't actually catch the diminishing of her reputation along with the titles, that does create a very...interesting view of the reason behind his actions. Perhaps if he had started with kiddo, worked through Doctor and up to First Lady it would seem different, but it does actually appear that he might have had an axe to grind expressly because she's a woman. Even moreso if he has never attended graduate school, then he's speaking categorically on matters he has absolutely no right to weigh in on for someone who did more than he ever could.

    Thanks for the perspective! I certainly appreciate a reasoned discussion in this crazy world.

    It's not, and I honestly would have suspended Epstein if he wrote some nonsense like that and published it in my paper. It's ridiculous to even make it a problem, no matter his reasoning.

    I would find it hilarious though if someone addressed her as "Madame First Lady Professor Doctor Jill Biden" during a comedy club roast.
    Better yet:
    Madame Jill Biden, First of Her Name, Kiddo, Ed.D, Professor of Northcentral University, Former Second Lady of the United States, First Lady of the United States :emoji_laughing:
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  20. Mac Juli

    Mac Juli Well-Known Member

    I wish it would read "Apply the three sieves of Socrates". Or anything remotely like that.
    Johann likes this.

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