Dr. Jill Biden

Discussion in 'Political Discussions' started by SteveFoerster, Dec 13, 2020.

  1. Maxwell_Smart

    Maxwell_Smart Active Member

    Yes, absolutely, because an accusation of misogyny is a much greater level of awful beyond petty, juvenile, inaccurate, mean-spirited, and conspicuously timed. I have been all of those things over the years, and I'm certainly not a misogynist.
  2. Maxwell_Smart

    Maxwell_Smart Active Member

    I say, be suspicious all you like, but once you make a negative judgement on someone without proof and pin a tag like that on them, you are now a witch hunter. Thankfully, we have organizations like the EEOC to help keep the mob at bay. Every day they investigate cases people file based on them having the belief that someone is sexist, racist, whatever, and every day many cases get thrown out just as they should be because there is a lack of proof.
  3. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    It's more bizarre to pretend some thinking is not associated with particular political position. And yes, there are bozos on both sides; it's just certain kinds of bozocity tend to be almost gospel on certain sides.

    Yeah, how DARE they limit our precious freedom of speech with their wrong kind of speech. Also, the bolded question is kind of key, isn't it?

    Saying that women are unfairly shielded from criticism in a country where "but her emails" decides Presidential races is utter bull [email protected] Quite opposite: women still face criticisms men often don't.

    Fact: Epstein's attack is a part of ages-long tradition of denying women their rightful dignity.

    Exercise: when Mr. Tucker Carson thrashes Michelle Obama using an argument that she has no right to promote children fitness because her thighs are not up to Mr. Carson's standards, am I allowed to "jump to conclusions" about Tucker? BTW, predictably, he jumped on the bandwagon attacking Dr. Jill. What would "factual evidence" even look like in this case?

    This leaves enough opening for bullies to basically amount to standing with them. Nope, sorry, not gonna fly.
  4. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    And yet, gender bias, especially low-grade kind, is extremely common. What we have here is the lack of language to talk about it without folks going on defensive.

    I still maintain that public attacks like this one is misogynistic. My opinion (I can have one, right?).
  5. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    Gender bias happens all the time. I worked for a software engineering company that had very strict policies against it but I still saw it happening all the time. Top engineers that were female were frequently paid well below what their male counterparts were paid. The national estimate is like seventy cents on the dollar, that is in line with what I saw. That was just one example among many.
  6. Steve Levicoff

    Steve Levicoff Well-Known Member

    Of course. Opinions are like assholes - everybody has one. :rolleyes:
  7. Steve Levicoff

    Steve Levicoff Well-Known Member

    Well, I’ve spent some more time reviewing various articles about Jill Biden’s dissertation, as well as the “dissertation/executive position paper” (according to its own title page), and I have come to a new conclusion . . . Dr. Biden (yes, having been granted an Ed.D. by the University of Delaware, whether she deserved it or not, she has earned the right to be called Dr. Biden if she wishes) holds a mickey-mouse doctorate.

    Now, am I being a misogynist by saying that? Of course not, you presumptuous and moronic imbeciles. I would call her so-called dissertation a piece of crap even if it were written by a guy. Her gendeedr has nothing to do with the3 sloppy piece of shit that she wrote. Besides, you douchebags (a label I use for both men and women equally), I was a feminist before most of you were born.

    Now, am I trashing Jill Biden by trashing her dissertation or calling her degree mickey mouse? Of course not, you idiotic numbskulls. I happen to like Jill Biden, just as I can think of many people I like who hold mickey-mouse degrees. She presents well, and I expect that she’ll make as fine a first lady as she was when she was second lady. Hell, she’s no Michelle Obama, but the University of Delaware ain’t no Princeton or Harvard.

    So why do I think that her doctorate is mickey mouse? If you have to ask that, you blithering mill shill, then you have never read what I have always said about Ed.D. in Leadership programs. They’re all mickey mouse. They are doctorates du jour, cash cows, one-size-fits-all doctorates. They are bullshit, regardless of the gender of those pursuing them.

    Unlike the great unwashed majority of you, I remember when the Ed.D. in Leadership was a credible program designed to prepare persons to become principals, school superintendents, and even university presidents. Even Union, my own alma mater, had a leadership major available in its Ph.D. program (as well as a solid track record in having its graduates hired as university presidents.)

    But in today’s educational environment, if you hold an Ed.D. in Leadership and have not become a principal, superintendent, or university president, then your doctorate is mickey mouse. Whether you are a man, a woman, or have not yet made up your mind. (Great line. I wish I could take credit for it, but it’s from Kinky Boots.)

    There have been many articles critiquing Jill BIden’s dissertation at this point. IMO, the best one is at Jill Biden’s Garbage Dissertation, Explained (yahoo.com). One thing that these articles tend to have in common is that they are written by conservatives who tend to also be right-wingers. Another is that I have not run across any articles yet that have been written by someone with a doctorate. And I do tend to agree with Rich Douglas that unless you’ve got one yourself, you have not earned the right to be a critic.

    Which, of course, makes it more profound when I come out against Biden’s piece of crap so-called dissertation since, as you know, I do have a doctorate.

    Now, do I refer to her as Jill Biden rather than Dr. Biden because I want to be a prick? Well, you piss-ant insignificant twits, you should know better than to even suggest that. After all, when is the last time I referred to Dr. Douglas, Dr. Bear, Dr. U… (that’s Stanislav, but I assume he would prefer that I not use his last time openly)? That’s right, you ignorant turkeys – I refer to all of them by their first names. Just as I refer to myself by my first name. If someone calls me Dr. Levicoff or refers to me that way in these pages, I will be gracious and not correct them. But I have always been open about preferring my first name. And even when I say, “I have a Ph.D. and you don’t,” I’m merely imitating Chevy Chase on Weekend Update – of course, many of you are culturally illiterate as well as intellectually bankrupt, so you wouldn’t have gotten it anyway.

    So, does Jill Biden’s insistence at being called by her doctoral title mean that she is compensating for people’s sexism? I have no clue – I’ve learned not to question people’s motivation. And if she gets her jollies being called (or calling herself) Dr. Biden, I couldn’t give a crap one way or the other. But her dissertation is still an amateur piece of shit, and would be an amateur piece of shit even if she were a dude.

    For what it’s worth, her conservative critics deserve every response they have gotten, both from J.B. and her fans. They have, in fact, been misogynistic, and their tone and comments have been blatantly sexist. My tone in this post, of course, has been patronizing as well, but you have to admit that it treats all genders as equally inferior. In fact, you’ll notice that I’ve insulted no one personally in this entire post – I just can’t help it if you’re all inferior.

    Have a lovely day and, if I don’t post for a while, all blessings and happy thoughts for Christmas. (Yes, you may take that to mean that I’ve had my say on this issue and do not intend to comment on it again.)
  8. Maniac Craniac

    Maniac Craniac Moderator Staff Member

    The 70 cents figure is misleading. The more tertiary variables you factor in, the more the earnings gap vanishes until there's nothing statistically significant left to it.

    Whether this is true in your anecdote, I couldn't know, but I have anecdotes of my own.
  9. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Ponder for a moment at an amazing coincidence that these tertiary factors just happen to add up to a significant gender gap.

    I once read a quote from some well-known Russian writer (Veller? Nabokov? don't remember, don't much care). He grew up during the war, and as he grew up, he was convinced that his mother doesn't like meat. She preferred boiled potatoes, so the boy had to eat all of the meagre meat ration. Talk of how "70 cents figure is misleading" strikes me just as naïve as that boy was (except he was, like, eight at the time).
  10. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    I'm not sure what is meant by tertiary variables?

    This article says it is more like 82 cents on the dollar now.


    Talking about anecdotal stories, my daughter is a nurse at a hospital. She was telling me some stories about this type of issue at the hospital with male doctors versus female doctors when interacting with the nurses. She even caught herself doing it and talked to the female doctor about it. The female doctor laughed and said she was fully aware of the problem and has to adjust her interactions accordingly.

    I guess I don't get where people are coming from very well on this misogyny issue. It just seems obvious to me that there is misogyny in our society.
    Regarding Steve Levicoff's tirade above, I thoroughly enjoyed it! I really love Steve's posts on the board. They always give me a smile if not a good belly laugh. I didn't think his post was misogynistic. I will bow to his assessment that an Ed.D is mickey mouse because I don't have a doctorate (not even a bogus one if I remember correctly, but I'm not sure of that) and I'll respect the assertion that you should have one before you might pontificate critically on such things yourself. Although if I ever meet Jill, I'll probably call her Dr. Biden and won't tell her that some consider an Ed.D. mickey mouse. :)
  11. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    No,, his post was not misogynistic, although I the jokes were not the freshest. Dr. Levicoff, in his gratuitously trashy way, makes an observation about an aspect of academia that is not targeted personally at anyone. This, can be intelligently discussed. But I won't bother doing it, because of limited opportunities to make fun of Steve that line of inquiry would present.

    I would say that, contrary to what Levicoff said, EdD can be appropriate to more than those striving to be "a principal, superintendent, or university president". It's equally acceptable for people in other senior roles in education, like administrative staff and full-time CC faculty involved in campus governance (like Dr. Jill). Also, there's no reason to believe principals turn out dissertations that are any more rigorous that anyone else. Other than that, yes, there's a stereotype that schools of education do not offer the most rigorous degrees at most universities. Again, I won't say whether there's any validity to it; I clearly did not do any research in that field.
  12. Maniac Craniac

    Maniac Craniac Moderator Staff Member

    For starters, the figure only takes the average of all professions and doesn't take into account that men and women, on the whole, are drawn to different careers and have different priorities. However, even for the same job, there are several factors that affect earnings.

    Men, on average, have more experience in the workforce. This is intuitively true when when we consider that the last several decades have seen a steady increase in the percentage of the workforce being female. Those who have tenure of 30 or more years of experience on the job, and therefore greater potential for tenure and merit-based increase, are still much more likely to be men. This has been changing, of course, one retirement and one entry level applicant at a time. This has, not surprisingly, cooincided with the continual closing of the earnings gap. Still, men start working younger and retire later, which also has an affect on the experience differential.

    Men are more likely to stick with one job rather than hop around. Unless there's an offer for more money, where men are more likely to leave their job, but women are more likely to stay where they have settled even if it involves lower pay.

    Men are more likely to commute longer distances for the offer of a bigger paycheck. Men are more likely to relocate for a bigger paycheck. Men are more likely to work full time. Among those who work full time, men are more likely to accept overtime when offered.

    This is just a sample, btw, but I hope it illustrates the point.

    Men and women, on the whole, make different choices that lead to different outcomes. To expect equal outcomes when they don't make the same choices is to disempower everyone from setting their own priorities and making their own path. To expect everyone to make the same choices is to take away the choice.

    None of this means that misogyny and discrimination don't exist, only that this is one area where the available evidence doesn't support the claim.
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2020
  13. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    The jokes are old but I have an over active sense of humor, pieces of which were acquired at the age of 7 or 8 and were never grown out of. So for example, I was laughing at the poop discussions in the
    "Level of Disgust Correlates with Political Spectrum" thread.

    Just to try to demonstrate the over active nature of my sense of humor I got four good laughs out of this line of yours. "But I won't bother doing it, because of limited opportunities to make fun of Steve that line of inquiry would present." Thank you.
    Maniac Craniac likes this.
  14. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    I don't understand what is this all about.
    Jill Biden earned a Professional Doctorate and earned the title Doctor.
    As to dissertation, the quality is disputed but the university found it to be sufficient to award the degree.
    If anything the university is who needs to be scrutinized not soon to be First lady Jill Biden.
    Its obvious that this is an indirect political attack on Joe Biden.
    Maniac Craniac likes this.
  15. chrisjm18

    chrisjm18 Well-Known Member

    I was in law enforcement for about 5 years. I left in 2017.
  16. chrisjm18

    chrisjm18 Well-Known Member

    Is it different from Father Dr. XYZ (my Catholic university president) or Dr. The Honorable XYX or The Honorable Dr. XYZ (members of parliament in my home country)?
  17. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    I remember secretary of state Dr. Kissinger or Dr. Henry Kissinger.

    Dr. Kissinger served as United States secretary of state from 1973 to 1977 and as assistant to the president for national security affairs.
    He received his MA and PhD degrees at Harvard University in 1951 and 1954, was professor of government in 1962 and director of the Defense Studies Program from 1959 to 1969.
  18. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    As if to remind us that academic achievement is orthogonal to virtue....
    Johann likes this.
  19. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Hooray. We have our annual Christmas visit from Jolly Old St. Levicoff! And not one, but SEVERAL lumps of coal each. How generous!
    Climb back in your Rig-on-High, Steve and get all those presents delivered. And watch your landing on Lerner's roof. Don't come in from the LEFT! It scares him.

    Bah, Humbug! Ho-Ho-Ho!
    Stanislav, Mac Juli and Bill Huffman like this.
  20. Maxwell_Smart

    Maxwell_Smart Active Member

    Certainly, and that bias doesn't swing in only one direction.

    I see an equal defense of the belief that this man is a misogynist. I'll go as far as JERK based on the tone of the article, but jerk is as far as I'm willing to go without more of his past to source from.

    I don't see the dispute as whether or not attacks like these can generally come from a misogynistic place, of course they can. The problem is applying a generality to a single person and a single article and then affixing the label of misogynist to that person without prior history to corroborate the label. I have over the years read many postings from people who have made the statement "Only Medical Doctors should be called Doctor", and these were general statements of that belief irrespective of gender. Here is something I found interesting and topical:

    Last month, National Public Radio’s current ombudsman/public editor, Elizabeth Jensen, explained why the news organization does not confer “Doctor” on PhDs; it reserves the title for “individuals who hold a doctor of dental surgery, medicine, optometry, osteopathic medicine, podiatric medicine or veterinary medicine. This news organization's reason for the distinction is “that for most listeners, a ‘Dr.’ practices medicine.” As it turns out, this practice is followed by many journalistic outlets, including Scientific American, because it is the standard laid out by The Associated Press Stylebook. The New York Times is one of few news outlets that does not abide by this guidance.

    - https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/please-call-me-doctor/

    I'm sure Elizabeth was a woman at the time ;-)

    So aside from many in the general public holding this position, there is also a pretty strong basis for it in media, and if Elizabeth is steadfast and consistent in following the rules she communicated, she would also agree with Epstein's point of not calling Jill Biden "Doctor" even if she didn't agree with the overall tone of Epstein's article.

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