Domuni

Hello all. New here and sorry for the necro. That said, I recently reached out to Domuni Universitas and it seems some things have changed in the last few years with them.

First, they are no longer working with the Angelicum to offer students STB or STLs. That means, no more canonical degrees coming out of or through Domuni anymore (it seems this is subject to change). Additionally, although in the past they were listed prominently on the Angelicum website, they are now somewhat hidden and I only found them in something like the minutes of the big Dominican conference.

Secondly, although in the Theology Masters degree part of their website it says, "Through an agreement with the University of Lorraine, and under certain conditions (including a passive knowledge of the French language), students who request so may obtain a French state degree in Theology." I was told by the Domuni admissions person that this is no longer the case either. In my email to Domuni I specifically asked for information on what the "Certain conditions" mentioned. All I was told was that the information was no longer valid. Not sure what to make of that and didnt try getting that information confirmed by someone else at Domuni. Also, please note that on the Domuni website this arrangement with Lorraine is only mentioned for the Masters in Theology and nowhere else.

I also want to say that I saw a rather concerning review for Domuni on Google Reviews that I followed up on. Here is the original text:

Here is the Google Translated text:

I contacted this man and he didnt have much more to add beyond what he said there. He did give me the name of other universities and tried to steer me there instead. The problem seems to be that only the masters degree in theology is getting official/state accreditation through Lorraine (although as previously stated, I was told by Domuni that this isnt the case anymore either) and he went into the PhD thinking the same type of arrangement existed, only to find out midway that this was not the case.



So anyway... in the end, it looks like Domuni itself is saying that there is no canonical degree and and no Lorraine degree being awarded at the end of any of their programs. From what all of you posted here and what I could find from following up on previous graduates, only a few years ago you would have been awarded those two degrees AND the Domuni private university degree. But now, all you get is the Domuni private degree and like has been stated before in this and other threads, it may not be worth much or anything to some employers or academic institutions. After many hours of searching, I could not find any reported instance of someone running a Domuni degree through WES. I ended up doing a deep dive onto their accreditation status with the government of France and they are definitely listed as a business of higher education. But it is private and without any type of accreditation nor state oversight (which is not necessarily a bad thing), and I could not find any information on how WES treats or approaches this type of French school. This limbo status regarding the degree equivalency is nothing new and has been reported here and elsewhere before, but I just wanted to add that I can confirm it as well. In another place (reddit? sister forum? dont remember), someone said they reached out to the consulate in France and asked them to research Domuni and they seem to have come back with the same information. I have attached a picture of what the French government education website has on file for Domuni.

From what I have gathered any of this could change at any moment when it comes to Domuni. They may make new arrangements with other universities. The Angelicum may give them the special deal they had before. Etc. It is also important to note that their arrangements with various institutions as well as their degree offerings change depending on the language selected. Here I have focused on the English offerings, but they do have Italian, French, Spanish, and Arabic.

Im leaving this here so anyone looking at Domuni can take advantage (for whatever its worth) of the many hours I spent on this. Personally, I will keep checking back on Domuni and may even pursue their bachelors or masters in philosophy one day. The way I would hope to use it is the following. There are some online and other hybrid programs for the canonical STB. But some of these programs are only 4 years long and not 5 years long, as the Vatican asks for. They can offer it as a 4 year program, because only people that have already spent a year studying philosophy can apply/be accepted. They expect that you have studied one year of philosophy and therefore can cut the program down to 4 years for the STB. In my case I would study philosophy at Domuni and presumably the places that offer the STB would not turn away credit hours completed with the Dominicans. None of the places that have the one year of philosophy requirement state that it must have been done at an accredited institution. I would still have to investigate before committing to it, but it is one of the rare instances in which I see it being worth much, without knowing if WES or others like it will accept it/grant it equivalency.

Edit -

https://www.education.gouv.fr/acce_public/uai.php?uai_mode=list&uai_ndx=1

https://www.societe.com/societe/association-domuni-422472522.html

https://api-avis-situation-sirene.insee.fr/identification/pdf/42247252200016

https://www.annuaire-mairie.fr/association-education-formation-toulouse.html

I am going to add some relevant links here:

 

What online S.T.B. programs exist?

 

@Enderet, interesting and disappointing. Am I understanding that you end up with an "own degree" under French law and the credibility of a Dominican institution of higher learning?

Still appears on the Dominican website as a Dominican institution.

https://studium.op.org/centers-of-studies-and-other-academic-institutions/other-universities-and-faculties-o-p/

 

To me an "own" PhD at that tuition rate with credible academic oversight and the backing of the Dominican Order could be worth it in a number of cases.

 

The ones I have found are in Spanish speaking countries.

This seems to be the golden standard and it is the full program (5 years): https://www.comillas.edu/grados/grado-bachiller-en-teologia-a-distancia/

This one here is a 3 year program... and it requires applicants have two years of philosophy if they are going to do the virtual program. In person it is the full five years:
https://www.javeriana.edu.co/bachillerato-eclesiastico


It will be nice to see this spread to the USA. There is already an STL hybrid (summer residency needed) being offered: https://www.shms.edu/licentiate-sacred-theology-stl-faq

Then there are many other places that offer the, from my understanding, "new" canonical degree, the Baccalaureatus in Scientiis Religiosis.

I may be wrong but I believe this is what you are actually getting from a place like Maryvale that calls their canonical degree a Bachelor of Divinity.

https://www.maryvale.ac.uk/bachelor-of-divinity.html

Similarly, there are several pontifical universities that offer this particular canonical degree in Spanish speaking countries. I previously ran into an online Licentiatus in Scientiis Religiosis, which is where the cycle of these new canonical degrees ends (no doctorate). However, I cant find the link to the place I had found, because Im not really interested in pursuing anything other than a STB and then maybe a STL.

 

Here is what the lady from Domuni told me:

First:

Then in a second email:

If that is what an "own degree" means, then I guess that is it. I looked through this quite extensively, https://wenr.wes.org/2015/09/education-france and then searched online to see how a place like WES (it is what my employer uses), would treat/look at this type of degree from France. I didnt really get anywhere with that research.

Now about it still appearing on the Dominican's website, yes if definitely does. However, they used to feature it prominently on the Angelicum website. There was even a button at the top to take you to Domuni. I read about this and saw it through the waybackmachine.


Here is the latest info I have been able to find about Domuni, from the Dominican order themselves (original French Here: https://studium.op.org/news-agenda-scholarships/capitulum-generale/#1575376123997-bb317df0-f8e3

It seems like only praise and the possibility of it getting better through more support by the order.

 

Usually. "own degree" or "own title" means a degree awarded by a State-Recognized school, that has not sought Ministry approval for the particular program. That is legit in quite a few countries, although the degree may have some caveats, as with the famous (at DI) Spanish "Titulos propios" that huge amounts of bandwidth have been expended on.

It appears the particular institution that awards the degree in question is NOT State-recognized, and the presumption here, is that ALL of its degrees are "own degrees," as none have Ministry approval. I think such a degree would have LESS value than a conventional "own title" or "titulo propio." It would not come with just a couple of caveats. It is an unrecognized degree coming from a private, unrecognized school.

This does not seem a particularly appropriate area for a Religious Society or its adherents to be dabbling in. The field of unrecognized schools and their degrees is fraught with all kinds of chicanery, lying and outright fraud. Maybe each of these unrecognized "degrees" should come with a handbook:

"What To Do When G*d Hands You a Propio."

 

In summary. "Own title" SHOULD mean - degree from recognized school. mo individual approval from program. Legit, with some caveats. Mileage: Not great, but fair.

"Own title" as I see it, should NOT apply to degrees of unrecognized schools. ALL their degrees are unrecognized. May be legal, if there is a licensing or other alternate system in place, for legal establishment of schools of no State recognition. (Many countries, e.g. France, Switzerland, Panama, DO have such a system. )The degrees themselves may have little standing or none whatsoever. Mileage - pretty well zero.

Of course, there are schools which have neither State recognition nor any alternate permission to operate.
Some may be criminal enterprises. Others just lowball, substandard, opportunistic etc. Mileage - negative.

 

The Dominican Order (founded in 1215) does have some experience running institutions of higher education. From what I recall their PhDs are in theology and also philosophy. Two perfectly reasonable majors/subject matter for an institution of higher education run by members of a religious order.

For me the clout of an 800 plus year old respected Roman Catholic religious order with a history of running educational institutions at all levels would carry significant weight.

 

"Some"? Dominicans run 19 accredited colleges in the United States alone. It's, like, their thing.

Full disclosure: I am employed at an RA university started by the Benedictines. Which is one of the 3 main Orders along with Dominicans and Franciscans.

 

Well, technically, they are a "Society" not an "Order". Just as big in education, though.

 

Sure. Over eight centuries' worth. But the degree under discussion is awarded by a French private school with no Government recognition. Where does it say it's awarded by the "Dominican Order" or any institution directly under the purview of the Order or the Church? The situation and the future are in doubt.

Same here. But is the awarding school fully under the aegis of the Dominican Order? Not at present, it seems.

This sums it up, for me. The situation needs to "get better" before we can truly say this is from a school run. or fully endorsed by The Dominican Order or the Church that Order is part of. I respect what being "in the fold" of an important religious order means for a school's standing.

Unfortunately, the "little lamb" of Domuni seems to be just outside the Dominican sheep-pen. When the lamb is lifted over the hurdles "into the fold" - it will be different. I hope to hear of that soon. Yes, that will change everything.

 

It does not seem the OP directly "awards" any degrees. For example, Barry University here in Florida is a private institution awarding it's own degrees, and they are not awarded by the Order or by the Holy See. Of course, Barry is regionally accredited, so no ambiguity to its legitimacy.

Why do you say so? It is featured on the Order's website:
https://studium.op.org/centers-of-studies-and-other-academic-institutions/other-universities-and-faculties-o-p/

It seems that what we have here is an "unaccredited, state-approved, religious university". These are a known quantity. All such schools face very real utility issues. Other than that, they ran an enormous range in terms of quality, from basically sound efforts to blatant diploma mills. Saint Sophia Ukrainian Orthodox Seminary in NJ is, at present, unaccredited, and has been for a long time (seems to be going through the accreditation process with ATS - which, frankly, surprises me). Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church in the USA has at least one seminary, also presently unaccredited. These are credible institutions. On the other hand, there are blatantly substandard schools abusing religious exempt statutes, particularly in Florida. I would say Domuni is closer to St. Sophia than to Sedona in credibility.

I must say, though, it's super weird that the Preachers of all people can't seem to get the recognition of their online school right. I mean, the proprietor of the freaking Charisma managed to get TRACS candidacy. What gives?

 

...also, there are more Orders that just the big guys and their numerous branches. For example, Order of St. Basil the Great is very prominent in the UGCC (not that most people know that either of these exists). One of their schools is Manor University in Pennsylvania, a largely vocational, fully accredited small college.

 

Not quite. That sounds like a US scenario, e.g Florida. We are talking a French School with no State Recognition. Period. You know what WES and the others are going to say about THAT, when you bring your (today's) Domuni degree Stateside.

That's part of the problem. See below.

Weird enough to give me pause - and for another poster to opine "It seems like only praise and the possibility of it getting better through more support by the order." "Weirdness" is completely out of place here. They're not "keeping it real." If I wanted to go to a school run by a Roman Catholic Order, I'd sign up for Don Bosco Global, in India. They inspire nothing but confidence. Domuni in its present state, inspires doubt. I'm out - and I think another Canadian, Kevin O'Leary, might be, too.

 

From this level of controversy, it appears to me a Domuni degree, given the present state of "weirdness" could be a degree a grad could be perpetually obliged to defend. Maybe that's unjust, but it's there. It is what it is. I hope that changes - I really do.

 

Possibly but I would find it highly unusual for a school that apparently has some sort of backing from the Dominican order to be substandard. It may be a project of part of the order to establish an online school and it may or may not work out but I get no indication of it being sketchy.

I suspect the Master General would rein it in were it an issue.

 

I re-thought that post seconds later and changed it. I didn't want any appearance that I thought the school is substandard academically. Nor did it seem sketchy. More like the Order had somehow dropped the ball on concrete recognition, endorsement, or a role in, or oversight in the school's affairs.

You (Garp) were probably writing your response as I changed the post. Here's the revised one, exactly as shown above.

The problem is that. as you say, the school has "some sort of backing..." Neither the school nor the Order are being clear about the sort. When you don't know, you don't know.

 

I will be supremely surprised if registration as a French private university implied less scrutiny than Florida religious exemption. Because there's no scrutiny in Florida religious exemption; I believe John Kersey runs two "schools" here.

Personally, I would pick a school I work for, and get tuition of up to Master's taken care of. As an RA institution, I'd say we inspire at least as much confidence as Don Bosco does. However, neither of these schools has graduate online degrees in Philosophy, and while we do have Master's in Theology and ThD in Applied Theology, we are also significantly more expensive than Domuni. Not the same offering.

So if you imagine a person interested in graduate studies in these disciplines, and his employer or Diocese is unwilling to pay for an accredited degree? Domuni becomes a contender. Utility will be diminished, sure - but it's not like grad degrees in Philosophy have bright employment prospects, accredited or not.

P. S. You know what I would advise them to do? Move to Malta. If SMC can get accredited there, so can Domuni. They may ask the Order of St. John to maybe find them a room for admin offices at the Fort of St. Angelo.