Domuni

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by GregWatts, Dec 22, 2022.

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  1. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Domuni only has Philosophy and Theology degrees. If these come up, that would be the topic. At an Oracle interview, the conversation admittedly won't be very deep; in this context, a degree warrants brief "oh, that's cool" before moving on to the latest full stack framework - whether in comes from Domuni, Capella, or University of Toronto. An HR person might ask if Domuni is affiliated with eg. Dominican University in Chicago (which, very indirectly, it is, as DU is ran by a branch of OP), or any other vaguely related school.
     
  2. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Sure, let's blame a genocide on a barefoot weirdo who had an idea of fighting cults by adopting the vow of poverty and training preachers in universities. It's a very Canadian way of looking at things.
     
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  3. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Not blaming St. Dominic. Just said I didn't like that part - Albigensian (Cathar) war. Definitely not attributable to St. Dominic - but to the Church of that time.

    Read this page on the Massacre at Béziers. A key part of the "Albigensian Crusade." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacre_at_Béziers

    I think you're reading between the lines here, coming up with what isn't there and blowing it up to billboard size. Please stop it. As for Canadians - go ahead and say what you like. Sticks and stones may break my bones - but whips and chains excite me.

    Historians' estimates of deaths in the war on Cathars vary from 200,000 to 1,000,000. Mostly civilians.
    That should mean something, to a person who is from a nation that is defending itself bravely in a terrible war started by a much larger aggressor.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2023
  4. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Of course, it's on the Church, not on the noblemen actually duking it out - or the King of France, for that matter. The Pope, IIRC, did fudge up by declaring this thing a "Crusade", but the whole thing was at heart a feudal power grab where both sides hid behind religion.
    I really didn't appreciate it when Ukrainian churches in Candad were defaced by self-righteous blowhards who thought they are protesting Residential Schools. Which were, of course, a government program supported by the public, the one in which Ukrainian churches had 0 involvement. Kind of like the internment camps. But it is so much easier for many to blame people and entities they feel no connection with.

    And, honestly, bringing this up on connection to modern Dominicans...
     
  5. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Well, I might, but then I think things like this are funny.

    [​IMG]
     
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  6. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    The correct answer, of course, is Homoousios :). And no, I wouldn't expect an Oracle HR to know why is this a big deal and what it has to do with St.Nick.
     
  7. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    I suppose in that case, Nicaea guys finished first?
     
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  8. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    [​IMG]
     
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  9. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Those programs never had my support. They were still around when I started working, so they might have had a bite of my tax money - but there's nothing I could have done about that. Some of my tax money likely went into the Settlement, and I don't mind that at all. The last residential school in Canada was in Saskatchewan and did not close until 1996. That's not "on" me.

    But yes - residential schools were absolutely terrible. One of the worst things that ever happened in the New World. And with religious support, I might add. And it's deplorable, that ANY people deface Ukrainian Churches - any Churches - or any other Places of Worship - on any pretext. But I think you mention this - not for my benefit - but just to get your 'fix' - a jab in at Canadians, whom you dislike in general, especially now that you are free from them.

    Play your game, if you must. I won't mind - I'll just ignore it. IIRC, it was a couple of your "own" - Ukrainian Canadians who shafted you and hastened your decision to leave Canada. Well, good luck to you, anyway. From the Land of Doug Ford to the Land of Ron DeSantis. Yeowch! You'll need luck. Suggest you pray. And I won't be watching that channel.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2023
  10. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Yes. Rough go, either way. "I'd like a one-way ticket from Charybdis to Scylla, please."

    Best wishes, Stanislav
    From Johann von Biersaufen, a typically SMUG Canadian - as you see things.
     
  11. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    This is the difference between a US Liberal and a Canadian Liberal. US Liberals blame everything on US. Canadian Liberals blame everything on the Catholic Church.

    That, they did.

    That is a decent - and funny - point. I even passed through the Abbott land. This must be some kind of record.
     
  12. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Yes indeed. A record. Especially to do so unscathed. Congrats.
    Not entirely my fault, by a long shot. My reference was to an article on St Dominic himself. And all I said was that I didn't like the references in it to the War on Cathars. (Because I hated that War.) As I have since noted, I do not blame St. Dominic for this event one bit - and certainly not modern day Dominicans, about whom I wasn't even talking. It was all 'Orders from the High Command,' centuries ago.

    Back a long time ago, I read a couple of books about the Cathars. I liked what I read. One of their sayings was "All things that are, are as lights." That's beautiful. These folks seem to have had a strong Zoroastrian streak in them. Persian and French - a delightful basis for a fusion cuisine, maybe. They certainly didn't deserve genocide.

    I understand there's a modern revival of Catharism today, in France. Je vous souhaite bonne chance, mes amis. (I wish you good luck, my friends.)
     
  13. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    I only read about Cathars in a fiction book, and there, they looked like a nasty cult. I think the author was literally a lay Dominican, so not very reliable. Any case, fighting ideas (especially populist cults) with genocides has to be the dumbest idea ever, so the perps don't get much points.
     
  14. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    I read one fiction novel and they looked like basically good people, as good as any, constantly in fear of their lives, due to Church-led persecution.The author was a lady who had about three history degrees. I like her version better. And yes, I've seen horrible stories about what the Cathars supposedly did, in their ceremonies and their home life, many of which were clearly sourced from the writings of Catholic clergy. They didn't build a case - I believe it was clearly fabricated. Inspiration - Rome. And French Commanders beholden to Rome.
     
  15. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    An aside here. 20-odd years ago, I enrolled in a distance course to learn something about the Catholic Church. Reason - it was working well for my sons. They had both converted to Catholicism and married young Catholic women. I was impressed, as were my sons - by the good family lives of their in-laws. Maybe Catholicism had something to do with that. (My sons were certain it did.) So I found a very inexpensive distance school, run by a priest in another Province of Canada. Lessons were about $7 then, ($10 now) and there were about twenty lessons on Catholic topics. Things went along fine for about 10-12 lessons and I received a nice diploma-looking cert for each one! And I got a steal on a bunch of matching black frames with black mats and a gold stripe. My bedroom wall was looking like a shrine!

    Everyone's marks were posted and I was doing pretty well - right up there with a fellow surnamed Rodriguez and a lady identified as 'Sister so-and-so." I felt pretty good about it all, until one day, the priest wrote a comment on my latest lesson. He complimented me on my marks and wrote words to the effect "as Abbot xxx (I forget the name) said at the Victory over the Albigensians, 'God will know his own.'" Meaning me, I guess.

    But I also knew that "Victory" was the massacre of Cathars and Catholics, both, at Béziers. The abbot's exact words (translated from Latin) were "Kill them all - God will know his own." He said this to some of the attacking soldiers who were concerned that there were some genuine Catholics in Béziers and likely some Cathar impostors. they asked the Abbot how they were to tell the difference.

    So I figured that school was not the place for me and I quit. I never sought another. A while passed and the priest sent a friendly-enough letter asking why he hadn't heard from me. Maybe he's still wondering, for 20-odd years. I don't care.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2023
  16. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Wikipedia says the name of the guy was Arnaud Amalric. These were not his "exact" words, if at all, and the extent of the massacre was most likely exaggerated. But it does seem like the Abbot was advocating for more killing than the military commander was comfortable with. No bieno.
    I think a lot of the trouble was because the local lords used the Cathar movement as a resource to resist the authority of the King. The King, in turn, leaned on the Church to help assert his authority. And the Church was willing to oblige, in exchange for an exalted place in the governing and social structure. BIG mistake. Also, Pope Innocent reached out to the King and the nobles to use military power, when he failed to stomp out Catharism through preaching and good pastoral care. Another BIG mistake. Thou shalt not mix Church and State, ever. That's what the Patriarchate of Moscow is doing now. I like how the modern Holy See is sovereign and exterritorial, with no role governing anything beyond Vatican City and not beholden to secular authority - in a way the Orthodox Church is not. When they strayed from that, disaster followed.
    On the other hand, the Cathar gnostic doctrine freaks me out. Granted, as I do believe in Nicean orthodoxy, I'm trained to be very suspicious of any deviation (it's Homoousios and NOT Homoiusios, and it IS actually important). Yet "the matter is evil, Jesus was imaginary, we are all spirits trapped in evil fake bodies by an evil Demiurge" gives me a major Scientology vibe. And we know how these guys are. Again, the remedy for this is priests doing their jobs (and being trained for such) and not being immoral and corrupt (exactly St. Dominic's argument). Getting the soldiers involved only makes things worse. God said "Thou shall not kill" without adding "...but if thou are My servant who failed at HR and your guys are failing, it's OK". Not everyone got the whole memo, it seems.
     
  17. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Arnaud Amalric. yes, that's him.

    Here are the exact words and translation - pretty much as I said , as written by Caesarius of Heisterbach 20 years after the massacre.: : "Caedite eos. Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius – Kill them all for the Lord knoweth them that are His." I believe it's actually from 2nd Timothy Ch. 2, verse 19. That neat, handy quote makes me suspicious. Maybe Caesarius was making it up as he went along. I dunno. Wili says no, Amalric didn't say this, but "there is little if any doubt that these words captured the spirit of the assault". Killing of women and children was allowed, but looting was quickly stopped.

    Certainly the 20,000 killed that Amalric reported was an exaggeration. The town's population was 10,000-14,500 and a fair number may have escaped. Wiki says even another account saying 7,000 were slain is an exaggeration. I'm prepared to believe that. But what does remain is that the entire Cathar Crusade ended at least 200,000 lives. (Lowest historian's estimate. Highest is 1M)That's a LOT in 12th Century France.

    Seems the priest who ran that school I enrolled in read the same translation. He believed Caesarius, You don't and I don't, now. OK - what did Amalric really say? A variation of this has survived. I've seen "Kill 'em all - let God sort 'em out" on t-shirts etc. Bikers seem to like them.

    As far as Cathar beliefs go - yes, if we are to believe this account, vehemently opposed to Catholic theology. I don't like the idea of killing non-believers, though. No - not even one. Under any circumstances. Perhaps that's because "I are one." :)
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2023
  18. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    This. Jesus didn't like this idea either.
     
  19. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    I know.
     
  20. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    They almost never do.
     

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