Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by AsianStew, Jun 22, 2022.
Just to clarify, are you saying for profit schools are un-Christian?
Simply calling oneself a Christian organization doesn't make one a Christian organization. You're just a business that put "God" all over your website. What is your Christian mission as a for-profit? To get rich off of putting students in debt? They had to create a separate 501(c)(3) to do "Christian" stuff. They don't provide an education in Christianity, and they're not operating as cheaply as possible to keep tuition low. Their undergraduate tuition is over $26k per year, and the students receive far more in federal financial aid than they do in institutional grants and scholarships. After government and institutional grants and scholarships, the net price for cost of attendance is around $20k per year.
So, my question still stands (put slightly differently): Can a school be both Christian and for-profit? It didn't sound like it from this statement:
This isn't a loaded question. I'm just asking to clarify.
People are "Christian", not schools or churches. These institutions or leaders within the organizations may attempt to convey (some better than others), the Christianity message, but people choose to follow and believe. A church, hospital, school, etc., is an institution that can be organized as a for-profit corporation or a not-for-profit. As a student, I appreciated aligning my education with schools that integrate Christian principles and ethics within the curriculum. I'm sure other students look for that experience as well and expect an uplifting experience whether for profit or not. I can't estimate the number of TRACS accredited schools that are fully dedicated to providing this experience but as a consumer, it is important that I get it.
"......"religious" does not necessarily imply “not-for-profit;” nor should it be assumed in law that it does."
I think you will enjoy reading this article. For-Profit Religious Organizations | Tom Gilson (thinkingchristian.net)
With that said, organizing as a "not for profit" certainly has many tax advantages.
I think almost every for-profit college is predatory and low quality, so no.
Pedantic, argumentative, and a distinction without a difference.
Why is it that the bad reputation of for-profit schools is almost exclusively an American thing. If the problem really was the for-profit status, wouldn't for-profit schools in other countries have exactly the same problem?
In most countries almost nobody knows whether a private university is for-profit or non-profit. In terms of quality of education and the reputation of the school, it actually makes no difference at all.
Reputation? How many for-profit universities are on the world rankings? In many other countries, most colleges and universities are government institutions, and the private colleges and universities are little-known. The U.S. has a hands-off approach to regulating higher education institutions and leaves it up to private organizations. In most other countries, the government assesses the quality of institutions.
I agree. The largest private university in Jamaica is for-profit (University of the Commonwealth Caribbean). Until I came to the U.S. and learned about for-profit education, I knew nothing about UCC's ownership status. I'm sure if you asked most Jamaicans about UCC's for-profit status, they would be clueless. UCC is well respected in Jamaica. They probably rank behind UWI, UTech, and NCU.
That is exactly why I specifically mentioned private universities. The fact that in most countries the most prestigious schools are public does not change the fact that there is no visible difference in reputation between private for-profit and non-profit universities.
By the way, I have the impression that you think I mean to say that there are no problems with certain American for-profit schools. That's wrong. I'm just not sure if the problem really is the tax status. There could also be another reason.
???? You're kidding right?
If I recall correctly, UCC is the result of a merger of two smaller private institutions fifteen to twenty years ago. I do remember for sure that years ago, UCC tried to set up an affiliate office in Dominica, but it vanished pretty quickly.
You're correct. Their logo actually reflects both schools, IMP and IMS.
"UCC was formed in 2004 as a result of the merger in 2002 of the Institute of Management Sciences (IMS), incorporated in 1992, and the Institute of Management & Production (IMP), incorporated in 1976."
Not really kidding, but I admit I exaggerated. Also, it's probably important to say that I'm not talking about the United States, nor about certain other countries, such as France.
By the way, the private university is basically a US invention. There are countries, including European countries, where private universities have only existed since the 20th century. In Europe in particular, however, there are many very old public universities. These old universities almost always have the highest reputation. (At least within the country. In international rankings, the schools of certain countries dominate. First of all, of course, those of the USA. These US schools are often private.)
To give an example of such a country: Germany.
The oldest German university is Ruprecht Karl University of Heidelberg, founded in 1386. The oldest German private university is Witten/Herdecke University, founded in 1982. Today, Germany has 423 universities, 113 of which are private. Most of the private universities are either at the bottom of the rankings or they are unranked. Whether a school is for-profit or non-profit really makes no difference. Only a few private schools, e.g. Witten/Herdecke University, make it a little higher in the rankings but none are in the top group.
Of course, this is not the case in all countries. Like I said, I exaggerated a bit. My point was that this difference between for-profit and non-profit schools actually only exists in this form in the USA.
In the U.S., many of our oldest, prestigious schools are private non-profits that were never converted to public. Even among the regional universities, non-profits tend to be much older than for-profits. The business model is problematic because supply and demand only works well when customers are able to make informed decisions, and for-profits specifically target people who know nothing about college, don't have anyone in their family or peer group to guide them, and don't know what's needed to transition into various professions. If these schools were of high quality, at least some of them would be able to compete with traditional non-profits for the same types of students.
Thank you. I already knew most of it, but I was probably missing the last piece of the puzzle. It makes more sense now.
But some German for-profit schools target the same kind of people. I think the difference is that a degree from such a school does indeed have some value in the job market. Also, German for-profit degrees are much cheaper than American ones. This is probably also due to the fact that public schools in Germany are tuition-free.
Perhaps there really is a problem with the quality of education at US for-profit universities. That would also explain a somewhat strange thing that struck me today when I searched the Anabin database for some American for-profit schools. (Anabin is a database of the ZAB, the German authority that recognises foreign educational qualifications.)
I didn't find most of the schools, but one that I found was Strayer University. The entry for this school contains the following note: (Google translation)
This translation is not very good. I guess I have to explain. A bachelor's degree from Strayer University is not recognized as a bachelor's degree in Germany, but only as the equivalent of a German high school diploma.
Take one look at the web page and you'll know why. Go to the program list and also check the 50 campus locations. This outfit looks to me like a career school disguised as a University. Sure, the degrees are legit, but the optics are typical "for profit." I'm sure German authorities are pretty good at recognizing schools like this.
Not this one, but there are American for-profit schools teaching business, computer subjects etc. that have branches in Canada. In the US they can legally call themselves Universities and award accredited degrees. They teach the same programs here, (Canada) but they can't award degrees here. So they have to call their schools "Institutes" or something and issue "diplomas," not degrees. They still charge a hell of a lot for them, though.
Having actually taken courses at Strayer University and eight other institutions as an undergraduate, I didn't find them any less rigorous than those at any other institution I attended, and noticeable more so than some.
Separate names with a comma.