Do Americans like Obamacare?

Discussion in 'Political Discussions' started by Maniac Craniac, Jun 27, 2012.

  1. Maniac Craniac

    Maniac Craniac Moderator Staff Member

  2. dl_mba

    dl_mba Member

    I like all the provisions of Obamacare.
  3. 03310151

    03310151 Active Member

    What, did you think, were the intersting points in the video?

    Overall people don't want the law as it stands. There are some people judges or justices I think we call them, who are reviewing the law for us.

    Americans like parts of the law. But don't like the law overall. Something this big and I would hope there would be some nuances to it. Maybe we only adapt those portions of the law that most people like? Why is this difiicult?

    This is where liberals come off as unthinking snarky little kids. You guys stay on the party line till death do you part. I don't think anyone should be getting their thoughts from others. If a Republican put forth the individual mandate and now Republican voters don't like it, why is that a bad thing? Are we not supposed to hold our politicians accountable? Do we have to agree with everything they say and do? I certainly hope not. Individual mandate is no good no matter who proposes it.

    You slang the first poo on this. Way to be a man and state your position up front, or are you waiting to see which way the wind blows so you can "me too" - "me too" with your finger up in the air to the wind on someone elses opinion?

    We get it. People on the right are racist stupid uneducated racist homophobic stupid racist doo-doo heads. Got it.
  4. Ian Anderson

    Ian Anderson Active Member

    I'm not keen on the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act but it is is a start on solving the medical access issue for many citizens. Lets hope future administrations and Congress refine and improve the program.

    Richard Nixon wanted to implement a comprehensive health plan and it is interesting to see that many of his points are still valid today (note that Ted Kennedy later said that his opposition to Nixon's plan was one of his biggest mistakes).
    Nixon's Plan For Health Reform, In His Own Words - Kaiser Health News
  5. mcjon77

    mcjon77 Member

    Dude, you are the first person in this thread to say that people on the right are racist stupid uneducated racist homophobic stupid racist doo-doo heads. No one else said anything of the sort.

    Personally, what I thought the interesting points in the video were how many aspects of the ACA that the majority of the American people like. The video also begs the question on whether the majority of Americans actually know what the major points of the ACA are.

    The question is "why?". Do people have a problem with the law because of specific elements within it, or is it because certain media outlets have been blasting them with statements about how bad it is. Is it just the mandate?

    The only thing the judges will be ruling about is the constitutionality of the law and elements within it, not whether such policies are beneficial or harmful to the American people as a whole.

    Because the 536/7 people who will be writing the bill, voting on it, and signing it into law may have STRONG special interests who are influencing them to go into a direction in opposition to what "most people like". Also, party elements may attempt to thwart getting portions of the law passed that most people like if only to deny the current administration a political victory.

    The question isn't about why Republican voters don't like the something the Republicans proposed decades ago. That's easy. The REAL question is why Republican leadership have switched there stance from promoting the mandate to being against it. I don't buy the argument that they are listening to their voters. IMHO the voters simply followed the lead of the Republican/Conservative leadership on this one. The leadership, through their media outlets, have set the tone of the debate and directed the opinions of their followers.

    What I want to hear is a discussion from some of those same Republican leaders/conservative pundits about WHY they changed their mind. What changed? Did they just figure out, in 2011, that an individual mandate would be unconstitutional? Did they not notice that in the '90s when they brought it up as an alternative to the Clinton healthcare proposal? What changed.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 27, 2012
  6. mcjon77

    mcjon77 Member

    Here is an interesting question, what do you guys think will happen to stocks in health insurance companies if ONLY the individual mandate is struck down?

    Recall that when the ACA (Obamacare) was enacted, stocks in health insurance companies shot up. This makes sense considering that they provide a service that, with the full implementation of the law, would be required to be purchased by all citizens. In fact, insurance companies have been the strongest proponents of the mandate, saying that they will be unable to provide service if people can simply sign up for healthcare when they get sick AND the companies can not reject them based on pre-existing conditions (another tenet of the ACA).
  7. Group thought and peer pressure are MONSTERS in this country. We would like to believe that since we are removed from high school that we aren't susceptible to those two. If you asked 100 citizens from each political party what was actually included in the ACA I seriously doubt the majority would have a clue. It's a lot of "I'm a Republican/Democrat so I guess whatever the person next to me is saying is correct".

    Personally, I do have an issue with calling ourselves one of the greatest nations on Earth and not having some form of universal healthcare.
  8. Understand one thing. You "in no form or fashion" speak for every American.
  9. 03310151

    03310151 Active Member

    Brilliant. Neither do you. I watched the video and in the video that commentator said Americans overall do not like the healthcare law. I was repeating something from the video. So maybe your response would be to say "TheYoungTurks" don't speak for every American or a maybe that a Rueters poll on healthcare does not speak for every American.
  10. Maniac Craniac

    Maniac Craniac Moderator Staff Member

    How many times do we have to do this? I'm apolitical. I have no position to state. Unless you want to talk about birth certificates, that is.
  11. 03310151

    03310151 Active Member

    Yes this is my standard response as I've been called racist many times for noting, among other things, that I'm not completely happy with what the President is doing.

    The famous line form Speaker Pelosi "You'll have pass the bill to see what is in it". Have you read the whole thing? I sure have not. I know the major points in it, but the nitty-gritty I have no idea.

    Depends on who you ask, I suppose. I don't speak for any American but myself. Personally I'm not against this healthcare bill. You do know that some Liberals and Democrats also watch media outlets and that sometimes those media outlets also have agenda's and that those Liberal Democratic Progressives my be getting some bullshit too, right?

    Which to me, is the most important aspec of it. You're not concerned that this portion of the act is unconstituinal (maybe)? Or is it OK to usurp the constitution when it aligns with your beliefs? Not me.

    Yes indeed. And you acknowledge that both parties have their own interest (and those of the money people above them) at heart and not us Americans?

    But don't look at it as changing or flip-flipping thinking of it as evolving. Policiticians evolve their stances on things through deep introspection and soul searching, not pandering for votes. See every politician ever in the history of America. See Obama on Gay-Marriage (he was only about 8 years behind the devil himself Dick Cheney), Closing Gitmo, Troop Surges, Transparency, etc. See all Republicans who complain about government is too big (and then make it bigger when they have power).

    The real crime of all this bullshit is that we (Me a more right leaning person) and others (Liberals and Progressives) are being played against each other by our "own sides". Class warfare, us against them, rich vs. poor, black vs. white, men vs. women.

    My party, whomever I choose to support at the time, does not speak entirely for me.
  12. 03310151

    03310151 Active Member

    Okey Dokey.
  13. 03310151

    03310151 Active Member

    The answer to the question of the video is of course "NO" as I am invoking *Betteridge's Law of Headlines* Once more a case of lazy "journalism" or "reporting". Did not answer his own question, fail.

    *"maxim that any headline which ends in a question mark can be answered by the word "no". The reason why journalists use that style of headline is that they know the story is probably bollocks, and don’t actually have the sources and facts to back it up, but still want to run it."*
  14. Ted Heiks

    Ted Heiks Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member

    So one guy in a YouTube video says that Americans overall don't like Obamacare and that is, in your opinion, adequate evidence that Americans overall don't like Obamacare.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 27, 2012
  15. Ted Heiks

    Ted Heiks Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member

    a Rueters poll is much more scientific than one guy in a YouTube video.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 27, 2012
  16. Ted Heiks

    Ted Heiks Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member

    In other words, if a Democrat toes the party line, that is a bad thing, but if a Republican toes the party line, that is a good thing. Got it.
  17. 03310151

    03310151 Active Member

    Nope, it's just one piece of the puzzle. I'm sure there are other polls out there that show American's love ACA.
  18. 03310151

    03310151 Active Member

    Did you watch the video?
  19. 03310151

    03310151 Active Member

    Your reading comprehension needs a lot of work if you think that is what I said or even implied. Kind of disappointing really.
  20. Ted Heiks

    Ted Heiks Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member

    03310151: This is where liberals come off as unthinking snarky little kids. You guys stay on the party line till death do you part.

    Ted Heiks: And how can these words be interpreted in ay other way than that it is a bad thing for Democrats to toe the party line?
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 28, 2012

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