Do Americans like Obamacare?

Discussion in 'Political Discussions' started by Maniac Craniac, Jun 27, 2012.

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  1. thomaskolter

    thomaskolter New Member

    Well my guess as to the November elections the Republicans will gain in the Senate and barring a major screw up Obama will get returned to the White House just seeing how things are going now this could change.

    If Obama gets in there will not be a repeal, at most the parties could do revisions to the ACA.
     
  2. ryoder

    ryoder New Member

    The ACA is just a tax and as a tax it can be repealed and modified.
     
  3. 29palms

    29palms New Member

    I think healthcare is kind of broken. We pay way too much as a developed country. When you have healthcare here in the USA, and pay for the top coverage, meaning like me, whom pays more per month to have better coverage, medical is great. But if you can't afford good coverage, you end up paying 20 percent copay for instance. That means if you get a heart attack and bills run in the 100,000 plus rage, you are now 20,000 in the hole. Can you afford to have a heart attack? Medical is great with great coverage, and great job to pay for the plan. Not everyone has a great job and can afford a great plan. That's the way I see it.
    If you want to cover everyone, somebody's gotta pay for it. So who pays for it? Should I have to just because I work and someone lays down on the medicaid system? It's really broken. I don't have the answers for it. I think its better to pay more taxes so everyone can be covered myself. But that's the way I think about it. I would look at TAIWAN'S system of covering. They looked at ours in 1995 and used us as an example of HOW NOT TO USE OUR HEALTHCARE WAY OF OPERATING.
     
  4. thomaskolter

    thomaskolter New Member

    Not exactly there are funding components taxes and then spending that can removed by reconciliation once, but there are mandates in it that are not funding. The major one and the reason the law is so carefully designed around it is the mandate no insurance company can turn down anyone that is a big one and cannot be put into a reconciliation bill in the Senate. If that is in there that and other parts can be filibustered and if any of that is in a repeal law it all can be filibustered.

    And if Obama get back in and/or the Senate holds at 51 seats or gains any for the Democrats there will be no repeal.

    I have a simple question for all the bluster by critics it is not even in effect yet with enough time to see if its a good law or bad law, how can you be so sure in the long run its not a good law?
     
  5. ryoder

    ryoder New Member

    Sometimes the US government thinks it can do whatever it wants and this is one of those times.
     
  6. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Really, though, there are only two such times that they think that -- daytime and nighttime.
     
  7. Randell1234

    Randell1234 Moderator Staff Member

  8. Maniac Craniac

    Maniac Craniac Moderator Staff Member

    :lmao:.....
     
  9. scottae316

    scottae316 New Member

    I didn't read through the entire thread so if this is a repeat, sorry. I object to this for many reasons but primarily on Constitutional grounds. First, before anyone says it, yes the US Supreme Court upheld parts of it. Well, I will put this simply, they were totally wrong. Government has no right to force a citizen to purchase anything, period. Taxing authority is not the same as but this or else we will tax you.

    Yes, we have problems with health care, but attempting to introduce the beginning of a single payor model like Canada and Europe is folly. European governments are trying to keep it afloat and are borrowing, or raising taxes to do so. Canada, we all know of the heart surgeries that still come to the US if the individuals have cash. It is not as bad as it use to be, but it still exists.

    I will end with one thought, look at the three other healthcare areas (other than Congress own plan, BTW they are exempt from Obama Care as are Union plans) where the federal government is in charge: Veterans, Social Security, and Native American/Indians. All three have very serious problems and are constantly criticized by outside sources and even internal government reports. So how about this, when the federal government cleans these three up and run them well, then we will talk about allowing the feds running the rest of healthcare. I know I will be long gone before this happens, until then, keep your grubby paws off!!!
     
  10. Ted Heiks

    Ted Heiks Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member Staff Member

    Car insurance?
     
  11. AUTiger00

    AUTiger00 New Member

    Car insurance is mandated by states, not the federal government. Different beast. The
     
  12. Randell1234

    Randell1234 Moderator Staff Member

    car insurance is because you have a car - not because you are alive.
     
  13. 29palms

    29palms New Member

    uh....and the last time too. When Bush did what he pleased in searching for those WMD's that never materialized. I see he got a coalition going like his old man did right? NOT!
     
  14. 29palms

    29palms New Member

    The veterans administration seems to have the problem of denying too many applicants in their healthcare system. The claims especially from the Afghanistan/Iraq war have skyrocketed. Seems everyone is jumpin on the Post Traumatic Strees Syndrome band wagon, and now, even the older, WWII and Vietnam, Korea vets at age need healthcare. The VA runs good, its a great system from everything I've read and seen, but its getting that claim approved for the VA that seems to be the big hurdle. It's become also some welfare program. If you make too much money, you can't use them. You have to meet a income ratio to threshold means.
     
  15. thomaskolter

    thomaskolter New Member

    I want to cover this first.
    Quote from an above post: First, before anyone says it, yes the US Supreme Court upheld parts of it. Well, I will put this simply, they were totally wrong. Government has no right to force a citizen to purchase anything, period. Taxing authority is not the same as but this or else we will tax you.
    - Frankly that is not the opinion of the highest court of the land so is not the constitutional finding regardless of your view of it they decided with a slim majority its constitutional in one case declaring the penalty a tax, but it was largely upheld. Even the Medicaid expansion is only elective it was not ruled fully unconstitutional states can opt in and would find it hard to say no with the amount the government is covering in the law. In fact now they can ask for waivers and options to do things like partial expansions so it made the process better. But it was upheld and the case is closed.

    Lest look at this at a simple level lets take a fictional man Bob his IQ is 85, he is a law abiding man and a citizen working "full time" at his place of business that considers full time 28 hours and he earns a year before taxes $13.104. Lets assume the state doesn't expand Medicaid and his workplace has 24 workers.

    Okay under the ACA he would at most in an exchange for a silver plan pay $525 a year for the premium and 6% of all out of pocket costs under the current law and plans.

    Now for the critics who want another option how will they makes sure Bob gets affordable and useable health care on his income assuming he has other expenses?

    Seriously I want to know how you help the Bobs of the nation or what about people poorer.
     
  16. AUTiger00

    AUTiger00 New Member

    Why should I have to pay more taxes or receive a lower quality plan so the Bobs of the world or those who are in their current predicaments due to poor life choices can be covered? To be clear, I'm not opposed to helping out the Bobs, it's the second group I mentioned I can't stand to think I am bank rolling.
     
  17. thomaskolter

    thomaskolter New Member

    I said what is the Republican plan for Bob the hard working limited ability types who cannot get a good education or who are poor and don't want to risk the debt so decide to work or who have to work at a job to help support a family so take those jobs with less pay? I want to know.

    The others maybe shouldn't get help but I'm worried about those that are doing everything right and are citizens and are just poor.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 11, 2012
  18. Ted Heiks

    Ted Heiks Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member Staff Member

    Both are part of the government.
     
  19. AUTiger00

    AUTiger00 New Member

    A state can mandate these things, a citizen can move to another state easily, leaving the country is a bit more difficult. Beyond that, the Constitution (in theory) prevents the government from mandating you to purchase anything.
    I don't agree with the Supreme Courts decision, I think they got it wrong. If it is a tax, as the court ruled, then Obama lied because he raised taxes on the middle class, something he said he would not do while campaigning. Either the court got it wrong (it's not a tax) and therefore should have been ruled unconstitutional or it is a tax and Obama lied while campaigning.
     
  20. AUTiger00

    AUTiger00 New Member

    That's a fair question and something that should be addressed. I think we can agree that reform is needed. The plan that is going into effect is severely flawed, but I agree that the Bobs of the Country do deserve our help. This is a question, or should be a question, of the greater good. This plan hurts more people than it helps. If it hurts a disproportionate number of Americans in order to help Bob, which it does, it's not the answer.
     

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