Curious is CCU a time bomb on resume ?

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by Ee, Jun 24, 2001.

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  1. Ee

    Ee New Member

    I remember reading that CCU would be a time bomb too if one lists it in one's resume. And, HR people may find CCU objectionable.

    Just curious to know what would the HR people say about the following listing ?
    Faculty list of "Our lady of the lake" college.
    Donald Cowick, M.D.
    Adjunct Professor, Arts and Sciences
    B.S., California Coast University
    M.B.A., California Coast University
    M.D., Louisiana State University Medical Center
     
  2. EllisZ

    EllisZ New Member

    Ee,

    This was pointed out a few days ago. Apparently Dr. Cowick's M.D. was earned BEFORE his CCU BS & MBA. (And thus he used his MD credential to obtain the faculty position.)

    There was a short discussions about where he may have gotten his previous credentials to get into medical school (or perhaps he didn't need them at all as is the case in some circumstances.)

    I don't know if CCU would ever be a "Time Bomb". They are certainly on the up and up. (I actually like CCU). However you cannot overlook the fact that it does have it's limits. If an accredited degree is required then the CCU degree will be useless in obtaining a job.

    I would NEVER recommend the school for an undergrad degree. This should ALWAYS be RA.

    Good luck.
     
  3. Ee

    Ee New Member

    *****************************************

    EllisZ,

    Thanks for your input. Well, I definitely agree that undergrad degree must be RA.

    Questions arise when one has a RA plus a CCU degree. Would one deem as "lazy" by getting a CCU degree ? Would a CCU tarnish the person's resume given that he may have other RAs degrees on it.

    I kind of like CCU and agree that it is not relevant for academic pursuits like in teaching. On the other hand, it does serve the needs of some people. But, it is common to see some HR or people "sterotyping" possession of a CCU as a lack of "character" in that person.

    I think that people would be more magnanimous towards people possessing CCU or unaccredited degrees. Of course, those who seek diploma or degree mills credentials should be detonated immediately with the 'time bomb'.
     
  4. Chip

    Chip Administrator

    From an HR perspective, I personally would not reject an applicant immediately for having a CCU degree. But I would probably ask a lot of questions that a person with an RA degree might not get asked.

    HOWEVER, when you say "CCU or unaccredited degrees" you're opening a Pandora's box. I can count on one hand (or certainly on two hands) the number of unaccredited schools whose graduates I would consider to hold credible credentials.

    There are plenty of folks (well, plenty of posters... many of them are the same person) trying to make the case that unaccredited degrees are an OK thing for people to pursue.

    Basically, they aren't. There are a few exceptions, but in general, an unaccredited degree simply isn't worth it. Even if the school *is* legal, with more and more RA programs coming available, competition will continue to grow, and there are lots and lots of unaccredited schools that have simply disappeared over the years, leaving their grads without any way of verifying their credentials. (Of course, this occasionally happens with RA schools, but it's much less common.)

    Now, I'm not condemning people who did Cal Coast or Columbia Pacific or other schools and are now stuck with the decision they made. This, for me, is about helping others to avoid the same mistake.

    There simply is no substitute for an RA degree. You'll never have to defend your degree, you won't find doors closed to you, and the regional accreditation provides at least a baseline assurance of quality.
     
  5. Ee

    Ee New Member

    Dear Chip,

    Personally, I would not advise anyone going for unaccredited degree.

    I am interested to know what opinion a HR person would form in seeing a job candidate with CCU listed along side with his RA degree, assuming the RA degree is already sufficient to meet the job criteria.

    Thanks.
     
  6. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I agree! RA or its non-US equivalent (GAAP, etc.) is indeed the standard one should seek. In the small percentage of cases where a non-RA degree may be acceptable, CCU is probably one of the better unaccredited schools. As others have noted, keep in mind that non-RA most definitely has its limitations.

    From what I have seen/read of CCU, a large percentage of their graduates have RA credentials (bachelor's and even master's), then go on to earn a CCU doctorate. I have noticed this with other non-RA schools as well.

    Russell,
    Who earned a non-RA bachelor's degree, then later earned a RA BA, and mailed the non-RA diploma back to the awarding school.
     
  7. Dan Snelson

    Dan Snelson New Member

    Well I "bought" the California approved California Coast University song and dance and began the BS/MS combined degree program. I did not research the difference between RA, DETC, and CALIFORNIA APPROVED.

    I found AED and saw the light, quit the CCU program and after looking at REGENTS (Excelsior), THOMAS EDISON and CHARTER OAK I chose Charter Oak. (CCU actually gave me less credit for prior learning than COSC) The degree will cost about the same as the Bachelor’s degree form CCU. (Less of course, the money down the CCU rat hole)

    Now I have 25 years experience in my field and 12 years in my specialty (Pediatric orthotics) and do not NEED the degree, but I want it. I will be going after a master’s degree when I am finished with COSC.

    I am watching a colleague having his CPU degree leaving him twisting slowly in the wind. I do not want to find out IF a CCU degree is a time bomb. Why, when the cost is the same at COSC and COSC is RA.

    CCU may be OK but I feel their advertisements (Airline magazines) are not the truth, the whole truth and nothing BUT the truth. California approval is just not enough to make a program legitimate, hopefully if DETC is allowed to accredit programs with doctorates CCU will apply to DETC, become accredited and have some real oversight. I know that some posters feel that CCU is one of the better Cal. Approved but I just can’t believe that RA or DETC can’t be done for the same money and be more useful in the long run.

    Dan Snelson
    (Remember, My opinion and $4.00 will get you a large coffee at Starbucks…).
     
  8. EllisZ

    EllisZ New Member

    You made the right choice. (COSC). Good luck to you.


    I'm in a similar position. (I don't NEED a degree at this point, but I want one ... for a number of reasons.)

    Now: I'm SURE that if DETC were to accredit doctorates then CCU would get that level of accreditation. Would this help? Considering DETC's role as the red-headed step child in the world of academia I don't know. It would certainly make it more defendable however.
     
  9. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I think the MD issue has been answered. As for CCU itself, I am not familiar with the quality of the work. However, if the post under the thread entitled .....Commonwealth University is accurate, I have some probelm with a six page Masters level dissertation. Don't you consider that a little light for an academic work?

    If I were in HR I might ask some serious questions about why the person chose the unaccredited route when at least at the B.A. & M.A. level accredited affordable options can be found. I remember on the old aed someone posted they were working on a MBA from CCU at around $4,000 + dollars. That was about the same amount as the Andrew Jackson MBA. AJU is at least DETC accredited. I would want to explore the persons analytical skills, etc.

    North

     
  10. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator Staff Member

    Russell, I'm curious what response, if any, you received from the non-RA school after you mailed back the diploma?

    Bruce
     
  11. Chip

    Chip Administrator

    If I came across a resume with an RA credential next to a CCU credential, I'd probably simply consider the education credentials satisfactory and move on to whatever else the criteria were for considering the person.

    If it was a Cal Coast degree only, I'd move the applicant into the "marginal" category, and if the other factors in his/her resume were really strong, I'd still consider the person.

    In the first scenario, If s/he ended up being interviewed, I'd probably inquire as to what kind of work/program was done for the CCU degree, but I wouldn't hold it against him/her.

    On the other hand, if I saw the same resume with an RA bachelors and a Capitol or Columbia State masters, it would immediately go into the reject pile. One company I worked for also made specific notations in the hiring database of resumes with bogus degree listings, because in some cases, the people would later reapply without the bogus credentials, and the company didn't want to take the chance of accidentally hiring someone who had claimed fraudulent credentials.
     
  12. Ee

    Ee New Member

    Dear Chip,

    Thank you very much for your reponse. It is very enlightening.

    Having a fraudent degree is not wise and I am all against it.

    Well, I hope DETC can succeed in accrediting doctorate programs so CCU may stand a good chance in getting their accredition.
     
  13. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member


    I'm not clear on where the idea comes from that CCU would go for DETC accreditation, if it could. California Coast University has been operating for more than 25 years using almost the exact same model. Except for a brief dalliance with the NAPNSC (an effort to run an accredititing agency for alternative schools that has been denied recognition by the US DOE seven times now), CCU has never shown an iota of interest in accreditation. This despite the number of its contemporaries that have gone on to accreditation, including Union, Walden, Saybrook, CIIS, Sarasota, and Fielding. But there were--and remain--two distinct differences. First, all of the other schools have always had some form of residency. Second, all of them have demonstrated superior standards and scholarship when compared to CCU.

    I'm also not convinced that degrees from California-approved non-residential schools have more utility for California residents than they do for those living elsewhere. In fact, I think they have the most usefulness to people living in other countries who see the state's approval and assume that's the end of it.

    Finally, I am very much convinced that a large portion of the marketability of degrees from unaccredited schools like CCU does not come from California's approval process and blessing. Rather, it comes from the graduates' usage of those degrees in situations where decision-makers simply don't know the difference. Where they do know (like in college admissions), the lack of accreditation makes a huge difference. And yet, California approval means nothing there, either.

    People are able to use degrees from CCU, PWU, Newport, FTU, SCUPS, etc. because the vast majority of humans on the planet have no idea about these intricacies, don't read forums like this one, and don't really care.

    John Bear once said something to the effect that he'd wager his house that the number of people claiming degrees from unrecognized schools is in excess of one million. Is it any wonder, then, that California-approved schools can just keep on chugging (and the DETC can just keep on waiting--they're not gonna call).

    Rich Douglas
     
  14. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Bruce,

    I mailed the diploma to the president of the school, along with a two page letter explaining my reasons for doing so. I stated that I was embarrassed to list the school on my CV, and that while the school's attempt to provide training may indeed be honest and legitimate, using non-academic titles for their programs (e.g., certificate, as opposed to degree) would better serve the student.

    Ironically, I have never even received a "thank you" from the school. No response at all. I wonder why? [​IMG]

    Russell
     
  15. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Rich,

    Are you sure about this? I thought that www.degreeinfo.com was daily reading for at least 100 million Americans, and as many non-US citizens.

    Maybe an ad in USA Today would help us get the message out. [​IMG]

    Russell
     
  16. EllisZ

    EllisZ New Member

    An ad in USA Today would only make us look like a "message mill".

    :)
     
  17. Dan Snelson

    Dan Snelson New Member

    I think our hope that they would attempt DETC accreditation is based on our desire that it NOT be a "less than wonderful" school. Having had several classes at CCU they would need a major overhall to get close to RA, but the DETC might not need as much. (of course DETC may start taking THEIR job a bit more serious....)

    WE all have our fantasies [​IMG]

    Dan
     
  18. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Fantasies acknowledged. But remember, at least three California-based, short-residency schools have been accredited by WASC. It can be done. CCU choses not to be accredited. I don't know that DETC would make a difference.

    Another point. Even if DETC is able to included doctoral programs into its accreditation, I would guess this would not include the Ph.D. Rather, DETC would limit itself to professional doctorates (like the J.D. or the St. Augustine PT program), or possibly even academic programs for professionals (like the Ed.D. or the D.B.A.). Would CCU limit itself to those designations? I don't think so. What I do think is that CCU will remain in its current form for a very long time, until California finally decides to require its approved schools to obtain accreditation after a set period of time.

    Rich Douglas
     
  19. DWCox

    DWCox member

    Russell: If I remember correctly you stated in a previous post that you used the unaccredited BA to gain admission to an MS (RA)program and it wasn't until much later in life and possibly after your D.Min (accredited) that you went back and completed a BA from an RA school. If I am correct then this unaccredited degree worked for you. You didn't need to return for a RA BA degree.

    Although I admire what you did, it wasn't necessary. Your time and money would have been better spent (in my opinion) on another graduate degree which might have saved you some time and money which you are now putting into a GAAP doctorate.

    If I'm wrong regarding the order of your degress please correct me!

    Wes, who has three RA degrees and is currently working on a fourth.
     
  20. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Wes,

    Your memory of the sequence of events is correct:

    1. Non-RA Bachelor of Theology
    2. RA/ATS Master of Arts
    3. RA/ATS Doctor of Ministry
    4. RA Bachelor of Arts (36 additional hours)
    5. GAAP Ph.D. in progress

    However, allow me to explain:

    1. Regarding the non-RA bachelor's degree, only the last 32 hours were completed at the non-RA school. I had already completed 2 years at a community college, and 1 year at a RA Bible College, so while 3/4 of the credit hours were RA, the degree was from a non-RA school (not a solid non-RA school like Bob Jones, but a less-than-wonderful school, which many would call a degree mill). I was admitted into the RA MA program based on the RA credits, and was placed on academic probation because the degree itself was non-RA. However, after one semester the probation was removed.

    2. After earning the RA MA & D.Min., the "necessary" aspect of going back to complete the RA BA would be somewhat subjective. Some would have no problem with listing the non-RA degree on a CV or resume, however, I did. It was embarrassing, and was something I did not want to deal with the rest of my life. So, I completed 36 hours of work and earned the RA BA. I have absolutely no regrets in doing this.

    Benefits of doing what I did:
    1. Credentials which are not questionable.
    2. No time bombs are going to explode.
    3. Credible CV/resume with no stains.
    4. Peace of mind in doing what was ethical.
    5. Personal satisfaction.

    Russell,
    Who is glad he did what he did, and would do it over again!
     

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