Comes now Marquess College/Marquess University

Discussion in 'Accreditation Discussions (RA, DETC, state approva' started by John Bear, Dec 14, 2005.

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  1. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Quinna -- she gonna singa for you one more songa... about Randomness and physics ... since someone made the mistake in the back row of calling Encore!....

    If I am bouncing, like three balls, unknown
    In which direction will find my next roll,
    Triple billiard complex, paying the toll
    Of simple only in the double crown,
    Is my tack my free choice, or all laid down
    For me? Induction! Induction, I call
    Upon thee now to bring soothing recall
    Of the rules, so that it will all be shown.
    Induction won't save me, to find smallest,
    Apply it to the next, won't bring the cure;
    Cries for simple answers—as if unprayed!
    To know the Omega, know the Tallest,
    Is beyond finite, reasoning allure:
    Am I the billiard player or the played?

    O Cold Reason, what twist of trick is this?
    To make the rules and bounce the random
    Soul to find the answers in the kingdom
    Of clacking interaction Babel's kiss?
    All chaos, all order—which to embrace?
    Hast thou no answer in the self-same game,
    Not found outside, but found in the same room?
    Some hint, some indication in abyss?
    That I can question you at all, O Mind,
    That I could calculate your fickle way,
    Inclines me to think I'm free in this at least:
    For it would seem that such pondering, blind
    It may be, may find the truth one day,
    And from this hard struggle to know released.

    FYI -- it's traditional that when the fat lady sings -- it's over. As in my participation in this particular thread. Flowers and chocolates should be sent instead to the Survivors of Quinna della Pericola's Concerts Fund.

    The Diva she thank you. Mwah.
  2. Jake_A

    Jake_A New Member

    What he said!

    My, my, my ........

    Now, imagine someone, a top-dog diploma mill entrepreneur and money-snatcher, such as (insert any name of your choice here: _________), on the witness stand and in the "hot" seat, sworn as a witness to tell "the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth," (or else face a 100-year jail sentence and/or a $100 million fine).

    Imagine that Dr. Galanga as the indefatigable prosecutor, peppering the mill shill with questions........

    Here is an excerpt of the proceedings ......

    "Is Marquess really run out of Florida, but using a London address for reasons known to the operators of Marquess?


    "Did the Marquess staffers install robots exclusion files in their sites the same day that the SRU indictment was delivered to the defendants because they felt their association with SRU made their other higher education activities overly public?


    "Was St. Regis really run by Americans whose offices were in the western United States and not primarily by Liberian citizens in Monrovia?


    "Did Sheila Danzig actually generate most of the foreign credential evaluations of the the SRU degrees submitted by the Georgia teachers?


    "Will a sham university try to hide itself from search engines and use nonsensical internet domain registrations?


    "Was "Paul is dead" just a rumor without basis in fact?

    "Ummm, er, hmmm, who is Paul?


  3. mineralhh

    mineralhh New Member

    Let's see if i get it right. Mr Quinn, who posts frequently at various DL message boards including DI, has identified himself on his homepage as professor of a "college", that is operated from a mailbox and now produces 404errors on its website. While the pages were still online, there were references to people on them, who have been previously connected to "less than wonderful" schools. As Mr.Quinn is well educated in the field of distance learning, he was well aware of this.

    Reminds me of the "career" of Emir Mohammed a few years ago...
  4. galanga

    galanga New Member

  5. miguelstefan

    miguelstefan New Member

    Quinn Tyler Jackson is an eminently reasonable man. He does post in other foray were I bear witness to the fact that he is often the voice of reason and that he has engaged in the very aggressive defense of DegreeInfo and it's members. If Quinn is a member of the faculty of X or Y school, I'm sure there is a reason behind it.

    He has been nothing but respectful here and elsewhere. The least we can do is extend him the same courtesy. By the way, he is also a very accomplished scholar and author.

    I for one trust Dr. Jackson to be a man of unblemished integrity.
  6. mineralhh

    mineralhh New Member

    I don't see how one is a "very accomplished scholar" with 7 publications (reference taken from one of Mr. Jacksons Jamesville-posts), that makes most of us I guess "very accomplished scholars", this just by the way.

    I don't trust Mr. Jackson as I don't know him. As anyone else on this forum, he of course deserves respect, needless to say. However getting involved in the kind of enterprise that this "college" seems to be about or at least looks like from the outside, seems especially in the context of his apparent DL education a little on the scary side. It would be interesting to hear, how and especially why he got involved.
  7. John Bear

    John Bear Senior Member

    Dr. Clifton suggests that I should not have publicly questioned Marquess College/Marquess University, but should have privately asked Dr. Jackson for information.

    My interest in such matters is in getting information on bad schools, and making that information known, not to embarrass or harass individuals (except in situations I see as potentially dangerous; I had no problem in 'outing' a safety inspector at a nuclear power plant with a fake graduate degree).

    I have generally found that privately asking people associated with schools I'm looking into is not nearly as efficient as asking for public help. If, for instance, I had asked a regular on this board about his connection with Northwestern International University, how useful would that have been?

    It has been fascinating to see the Marquess situation unfold: lots more information, interesting opinions, a spirited defense -- news forums at their finest.
  8. miguelstefan

    miguelstefan New Member

    Maybe I’m wrong, but comparing someone’s career to Emir Mohammed’s does not seem too respectful to me.

    I think anyone that has read your work knows that you have too much class for anything less.
  9. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Hi Dr. Bear,

    I just wondered if you would have received the same info had you simply asked about Marquess College/Marquess University without mentioning Dr. Jackson's name, that's all.

    Given the history of some on this board towards Mr. Jackson in the past, I hate to see his name denigrated again after his having achieved a modicum of respect at Degree Info.

  10. Guest

    Guest Guest

    It's a good thing I'm not in this life for anonymous trust, Mineral, or strong words like "I don't trust Mr. Jackson" would make me cry. :D

    Why do I get involved in anything in life? Because I believe in getting involved with things in which I can believe.

    What we've seen in this thread to date is utter speculation, innuendo, and nonsense. When I want to get to know what something is about, I try to do an honest, fair, and real job of it, without relying on hearsay and guesses. Sure, I have a "spidey sense" that tingles me out of some situations from time to time -- a gut instinct, if you will.

    Because I use my real name (and not a moniker) -- what I do associate with that name -- I am very, very careful about. This does not mean, however, that I am going to jump on a public bandwagon and jump in with speculation and innuendo -- especially when that speculation is in total contradiction with what I have personally researched in some depth for considerable time. So sometimes one will find my name associated with things that fall out of the popular love. It's a good thing I'm not looking for the popular love, either, then.

    I prefer truth to opinion.

    So, when I want to know whether or not a school is rigorous -- there's a chance I'll pursue a degree through them -- and see just how rigorous they are -- rather than how rigorous they are reported to be.

    When I want to know whether someone believes on the same things I do, rather than just professes similar beliefs, I get to know that person, across time. I don't trust journalism and reports -- I really get to know that person or place. I go in trusting -- but keep my senses finely tuned for any warning signs. If the warning signs do not come -- I come to realize that those people and places have been misunderstood, mischaracterized, or whatever.

    If people prefer to trust authorities rather than primary engagement -- in order to save time, avoid the hassle of forming their own opinions based on primary experience, or whatever -- that is fine by me. I realize that getting to know people and places the way I prefer to do it can be time consuming and one always risks finding out that the expert may have been right, even after such engagement.

    Over the years, however, I have discovered that the world is full of misunderstood and misrepresented people. My method of doing things -- while "risky" -- has been rewarding. I've gotten to know people nobody else would go near with a ten foot pole were the pundits to be the only source of information about them. Genuine, constructive, productive, positive, helpful, caring ... people.

    There are certain types of people who I will tend to avoid, based upon their public performance. I feel no need to list their names -- since that would serve no purpose except to express my personal opinion. Even so -- if they were to approach me at a personal level -- I'm willing to work at coming to an understanding and human connection -- even with people whose views are in direct opposition to my own.

    So the answer to your question is simple: because I believe in what Marquess wants to achieve. I feel I have some sense of just what that is. I feel those here who have posted speculation and innuendo about that goal -- well, are wrong. Nothing can be done about that at the moment since the College is not yet open.

    Thus, as said Wittgenstein, "What we cannot speak about we must pass over in silence."

  11. mineralhh

    mineralhh New Member

    great that you didn't take it personally, it of course also wasn't intended to be.

    It is also wonderful that you take a lot of time to participate in this thread. There is no doubt to me that you have worked in the scientific community for reasonable amount of time. Your argumentations sound scholarly, you show respect. Great. Your constant references to the bigger picture, or meta-level how it is commonly called, manage to give your replies a meaning without ever getting much into the details. Which is something that many scholars do in scientific papers for a variety of reasons as I am quite sure you will know. As such a question like mine regarding involvement can very well be answered in a variety of ways: regarding the definition of involvement, the context of involvement, reasons for getting involved with something in general or even using references to spiritual beliefs to just name a few. And all answers are valid, no doubt. So of course is yours. And I personally, I would be interested in an even different perspective: the decision making process of your involvement to phrase my question a little more precise. This one covers questions such as how you found about about the college, which as you say isn't even open yet. why you felt that the college will achieve what it is in for despite some individuals who have been identified as questionable in the past. why you felt that this apparently newly founded college was the appropriate place for your involvement, despite for example many other more renowned organizations targetting highly-gifted students. I honestly would be interested in learning about this reasoning process that lead to a from my perspective quite obscure outcome.
  12. mineralhh

    mineralhh New Member

    Just as a side note: truth in the context how you use is perceived in all academic disciplines I am familiar with as a subjective construct. Using the induction approach as you suggest leads anywhere but not necessarily to what you consider "truth". What about that man, who actually had to complete assignments at St.Regis? So one has to conclude that St. Regis really was legit? All the students I have tutored this last semester were substandard. Does this mean that in truth students at this school are substandard? I am afraid it's not that easy...

    best wishes
  13. John Bear

    John Bear Senior Member

    Dr. Clifton:
    I just wondered if you would have received the same info had you simply asked about Marquess College/Marquess University without mentioning Dr. Jackson's name, that's all.

    Dr. Bear:
    Yes. In retrospect, I wish I had done it that way.

    With Dr. Jackson's name as one of very few associated with Marquess, it is, I think, inevitable that the association would have been made promptly by others. Even though my mention was, I think, entirely non-pejorative, there was no need for me to do it, and I apologize.
  14. miguelstefan

    miguelstefan New Member

    DegreeInfo at it’s very best. Dr. John Bear has shown us the way to a constructive, polite and meaningful debate yet again.

    Thanks Doctor!
  15. decimon

    decimon Well-Known Member

    Well, you'd have known what you were doing and we'd have known you knew what you were doing and...

    In context of this forum, you were probably right the first time.
  16. Guest

    Guest Guest

    If anyone can interpret this for me, please email me at [email protected] :D
  17. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Personal experience has something to do with it. When I was 19, my university counsellor's advice to me, when I showed frustration with the system at Simon Fraser University, was to leave. To find my own path. This despite excellent marks and a very likely probability that I would have continued in that direction.

    Years later, through ultrahigh IQ organizations, I started to meet those who shared similar experiences with higher education. In a nutshell, it was clear that the system, as it stood, was not built to accommodate "us". Not that we expect it to be, of course.

    There are two ways to deal with life if life doesn't hand one what one feels one wants or needs: whine about entitlement, or strive to build what one wants (so that others may benefit from it). Whining about entitlement works for about 15 minutes to satisfy one's concerns -- and then it gets mighty old, mighty fast. Striving to build something that others might benefit from seems more productive. If what you want isn't there -- build it.

    This, of course, means first taking time to see what is really wanted/needed, so as to not impose something upon people.

    Simply put -- most programmes for the gifted focus on children. This means that most programmes require that adults (who may not themselves be gifted at the level of those they wish to assist) get involved in some way. What was missing, IMO, were programmes that focus on adults who already may have been marginalized. (The "walking wounded" as the late Grady Towers would have said.) True outsiders wish to take control of their own fate. Moreover, for a variety of legal and ethical reasons, I have always preferred to not get involved with youth and early education programmes. I'm much more comfortable with those at or above the age of majority. I think the traditional system can deal with those below that age -- even if it does a shoddy job at times, even if it fails those children -- because frankly I don't want to be involved with those who cannot legally make decisions for their own development. I've three children of my own -- that's quite enough responsibility for shaping young minds -- thangyaverymuch.

    I considered the possibilities -- getting involved with advocating for the highly gifted within the traditional system -- or building a new system that accounts for them from the get-go. My early contact with the traditional system convinced me that the traditional system of tertiary education has insufficient motivation to deal with highly gifted. By definition, 4 sigma+ simply isn't large enough a community to warrant the traditional system's giving much of a damn. I don't fault them for this. The response from those I contacted in this regard within the traditional system amounted to "So what? Why should we take these people into account?" (I'm paraphrasing -- but that's basically the spirit of the replies I got from one accredited university dean -- and sums it up quite clearly.)

    My investigation into just what it is that the highly gifted want from their tertiary education indicated to me that they want rigor, but that they want it within a highly flexible program that accounts for such things as an incredible degree of interdisciplinary freedom. In that many of these people are in a sigma band that puts them at 1 in 30,000 or so, they realize that they are not likely to find many supervisors in their particular fields of interest -- and this means that if they are to receive competent supervision, they may have to involve multiple advisers and external examiners -- sometimes those outside of traditional academic settings. Contrary to what some may think -- those in such a band are not elitist snobs -- they will listen to feedback -- but very often only from those they know are the absolute leaders of their respective areas of research. No one institutions can hope to offer the right blend of people on the native staff. This means negotiating and advocating and searching across the entire globe in some cases to find the right mix of advisers. It might even mean switching advisers as various points in the progress of a thesis -- to account for things such as one might not find in a traditional candidate.

    To do that, a single contact point is required, to try to bring some cohesion. There must be someone who acts as a kind of "meta-adviser" -- someone who works with both the candidate and the advisors to try to bring some unity into the programme. Not necessarily a subject expert -- but someone who tries to make sure that the overall effort is coordinated such that a totally incohesive whole is avoided in the end.

    All this without bringing the cost of the programme so high that only the very rich could ever hope to have such flexibility.

    I felt this particular college was the right place to do this because, as a newly formed institution founded by someone who had already expressed respect for my interests in this direction, it was open to listening to my concerns in this regard, and willing to believe that my concerns in this regard were formed over 6 years of intense participation in the community I wished to serve. I felt that, by being involved in the process at this seminal stage was something I could not get from an already established organization. This comes from mutual respect of one another's educational philosophies and goals. In short -- I didn't have to convince the college of my motivations -- as my motivations are pretty clear to those who know of my participation in the concerned community. I am trusted in that community because I am a long time contributor to that community's well-being.

    In fact (and I'm not bragging here -- just reporting), my papers to that communities journals are some of the few that are cited regularly in the standard academic community. Journals such as Noesis-E and Perfection, geared to the highly-gifted community, are listed now in doctoral dissertations in computer science and in refereed papers as the publication sources. This because I submitted so much to those gifted-community journals, and traditional researchers felt those papers ought to be cited. This kind of ambassadorship between the gifted and regular communities has gone on for some time. The results are tangible. And, from the beginning, my stated rationale for submitting my papers to those journals was to attempt to build (rather than burn) such bridges between these two communities. That objective, although not complete -- appears to have been achieved in some small way by this strategy.

    Of course there will always be negative nellies in this regard, those who use such terms as "self-styled" or "dubious" or whatever. That is not particularly troubling to me. Traditional academics sometimes fall back on these terms to describe such journals. More power to 'm, if that's what turns their particular gears. I prefer to do what it is I do and let such critics have their way with it. Such comments do not make the results I've had with my research "go away". If people wish to disregard my scientific results because of where I chose to submit those results -- they do so at the risk of missing those results. Heck, they do this even with other journals -- I've seen so many missed results -- even when those results are reported in known refereed sources, as to think that some traditional academics only read those journals their advisers sanctioned -- even if that means they missed important results within their own fields. (Happens all the time that people report "new" results that were "new" years back in some other journal.)

    IMO, the obscurity of this outcome comes primarily from rush to judgment. MCL isn't open yet. There are still fine tuning steps being taken. When I say that speculation and innuendo have flavored this thread -- that's what I sincerely believe. By posting my appointment on my personal web page, I have contributed to this by calling attention to something that is still being formed -- something that I'm not particularly happy about -- but such is life. The "on your mark, get set" was followed by a premature "go!"
  18. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Thanks. Accepted. And I apologize for the rather (in retrospect) high-handed tone of my rebuke. I hope people realize that my response was directed not at the people specifically, but at the notion of public speculation without sufficient specific information.

    My role on this forum is not to represent the college on a public forum or get into administrivia. When it appears officially -- the material presented will represent the college on its own merits, for whomever to evaluate as the wind takes them.

    The most I can do is say, as I already have, that I seek to connect my name only to those things in which I believe, after considerable determination, are correct and proper. How others interpret those connections is of less concern to me than what I witness myself, over time.
  19. mineralhh

    mineralhh New Member

  20. Guest

    Guest Guest

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