CLEP exams vs 16 week semester courses

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by saiga, Jan 8, 2009.

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  1. MISin08

    MISin08 New Member

    What you do miss if you test out of everything is the opportunity to learn face-to-face from Ursula K. LeGuin, Phil Knight, or the world's most renowned expert on Arthurian legend, et cetera. But they don't teach intro courses anyway ;).
    If that's what you want, you pick and choose. Choice is what this is all about. I think this is the best time ever to be a self-directed learner, other than it's still too costly.
     
  2. Shawn Ambrose

    Shawn Ambrose New Member

    However, taking the class for AP is not a requirement - a homeschooled student (or anyone else for that matter) can take an AP exam. BTW - there is a plethora of AP exam materials available. (Just look at Cliff Notes for instance).

    You also mention that CLEP Exams should be banned because someone can "cram for a few hours and pass." So would you ban a student who crams for a few hours for a final exam in the traditional setting and passes. Trust me, it happens (I know I did a few as an undergrad).

    Finally, you state that "name schools" don't accept CLEP, and then give one example of a school that doesn't. Well, there are 2,900 that DO, to include: Princeton, Duke, University of Chicago, Northwestern, and Washington University. I believe that these schools (a very small sampling) would be considered more prestigious than University of Illinois - Urbana.

    This is not to diss UI-Urbana; if their administration has decided to not permit CLEP, that is their decision. But to state that "name schools" are going to eliminate CLEP and use them as an example is a bit farfetched.

    Shawn
     
  3. thatbrian

    thatbrian New Member

    Six out of eight (75%) of the big boys must think that CLEPing is cool, because they accept them for credit.;)

    Brown
    Cornell
    Columbia
    Dartmouth
    Princeton
    U Penn
     
  4. Randell1234

    Randell1234 Moderator


    What two did not...Harvard and Yale?
     
  5. thatbrian

    thatbrian New Member

    Yes, and boy was I disappointed; I spent countless hours on my applications for nothing!
     
  6. cookderosa

    cookderosa Resident Chef

    >>

    You did say it...which is why I used all the cool quotation marks around your words. I've lost track of your arguments as you seem to be grasping at straws.
    I could tell you exactly where I teach, but then I would deprive you of your ability to learn good search skills. It's easy enough to find out on your own in about 5 minutes.
     
  7. cookderosa

    cookderosa Resident Chef

    >>


    LOL That's ok, you CAN earn your degree through Harvard's extension, CLEP all you want.
     
  8. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

    Most universities cap the amount of examination credit that they will count towards a bachelors degree. So there are going to be limits on how much examination credit transfer students can transfer in as well.

    I don't have any real problem with people that learn outside traditional classroom settings. That's what I'm doing myself, in fact. But I do have problems when people start to blow-off learning entirely.

    I think that people who claim large amounts of hollow credit in a few days by madly taking multiple-choice exams in subjects that they've never studied are abusing the system. Even worse, I worry that exams that can be passed that way aren't university-level, simply by definition.

    To many employers they are. That's what's driving this. Students, especially DL students, want diplomas and certifications that will get them more money on the job. They want those diplomas as quickly as possible. Learning has gone from being the object and focus of the whole higher-education enterprise to just being an annoying speed-bump on the way to an entirely different end.

    I know that in my undergraduate majors it would have simply been impossible to assess us by multiple choice exams. Many of our blue-book essay exams were open-book and assumed familiarity with the assigned readings (and class discussions). A lot of our work product consisted of papers. Laboratory classes hit us with practical problems. Other classes assigned projects. Often completing these various things was a fundamental part of the learning experience, forcing us to be creative and synthesize lots of divergent strands into something coherent.

    So yeah, I agree that people who try to avoid all that stuff, and the many hours of reading and discussing and thinking that underlies it and makes it possible, are just shortchanging themselves.

    But that's not my primary concern. What really worries me are all the anecdotal reports that I read about how it's possible to pass lots of exams very quickly and rack up huge amounts of credit with little or no knowledge of the subjects in question. I've never taken a clep exam myself, and probably never will. All I know about them is what I read on the distance learning discussion boards. But some of what I read is definitely unsettling.
     
  9. bazonkers

    bazonkers New Member

    This is the real problem. Many times, the BS/BA degree is the new HS diploma. I have several friends that have jobs where they get a bump in pay if they get an associates degree and a larger bump for a bachelors degree. Their employer states that the subject of the degree doesn't matter. As long as this sort of thinking exists, people will be encouraged to get their degree as fast as possible for the money and not for the education.
     
  10. saiga

    saiga member

    There you go getting defensive again. I must have really gotten under your skin.

    Why would I take the time to search where you teach? Your attempt at being witty failed miserably. Sounds like you're just a little embarrassed about where you teach and probably prayed to God I didn't actually use the search function to find out.

    PS...You went to TESC LOL.
     
  11. soupbone

    soupbone Active Member


    You know I thought this thread had a decent debate going but now you want to insult TESC and everyone who went or currently goes there. Now you've shown your true colors for sure. You claimed previously that you were in favor of distance learning yet you insult one of the three largest online providers in distance education. You seriously can't make up your mind.

    Have fun getting any help here as you've shown people that you're an internet troll.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 12, 2009
  12. PatsGirl1

    PatsGirl1 New Member

    Put him on your ignore list under "User CP". I did already. Sorry but I had enough with the rudeness and insults, implied or articulated.
     
  13. thatbrian

    thatbrian New Member

    Better look for a new screen name, because that one's shot now. Try something that reflects the true, inner you. I know: Jackass


     
  14. billp

    billp New Member

    Saiga,

    I'm one of those CLEP people you seem to have such disdain for. I didn't have the financial wherewithal to finish college in my youth. I had to drop out after earning only 38 hours to find a job. After working in several fields for about 20 years and spending a lifetime reading eclectically I heard about Charter Oak.

    I was thrilled. I was able to finish my BA (concentration in History) degree in 13 months by taking 21 CLEP and/or DANTES exams. Some of them I didn't study for at all, some of them only required a couple of hours and some of them required many hours spread out over a couple of weeks. The lowest score I received on an exam was a 64, the highest was an 79 and my average was 72.4 (out of 80).

    When I finished the degree at Charter Oak, I took the GMAT and received a score of 670 which placed me in the 85th percentile. On the strength of that score and my transcript full of CLEP exams I was admitted to Georgia State University's Robinson School of Business Flex-MBA program, where I currently have a 3.3 GPA.

    You sound to me like one of those people who thinks everyone should have to work equally hard to achieve the same results. Well, the world doesn't work that way. Some people find school work difficult and need 35 or 40 hours of contact with a professor to learn. Others find academics easy and are quickly able to grasp complex concepts and information on their own. Don't envy them, and try to imply that they don't know as much as the person who studied longer. Its what you learn that counts, not how long it took you to learn it.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 13, 2009
  15. Petedude

    Petedude New Member

    This is why occasionally I make comments on the InstantCert board about how people should be studying before taking these exams.

    The way I see it, there are two broad areas of credit by examination:
    1. College courses by examination, at the respective school
    2. CLEP, DANTES, etc.
    The intent of credit-by-exam offered by a school is to aid the ambitious student with/without resources for regular class attendance who can learn program-specific course content on their own and can demonstrate mastery.

    The intent of credit-by-exam programs such as CLEP and DANTES is that you should be taking the exam with some sort of acquired knowledge in advance-- preferably classes or personal experience, possibly some sort of self-study at some past point. This is why I encourage folks to read SOMETHING in advance of taking their exam. I believe it somewhat defeats the purpose of the exam programs to take the tests after using a quiz system without some sort of real exposure to the subject matter.

    That being said, though, it's no less fair for someone to take a CLEP exam and pass with three hours' study than it is for a computer geek to sit through a Computer Literacy 101 class and get an A with hardly turning in any work.

    I think some of people's distaste for the exam cramming derives from a little jealousy as well. I consider myself intelligent, a fast reader and an apt study. How is it that some guy can wrap up Economics with one night's study and it took me a month? But some people have that skill. Bear in mind, they may be taking a tradeoff somewhere else down the line (e.g. grad school may be too hard for them).

    While mentioning tradeoffs, it's also important to note that many schools that accept high numbers of credit-by-exam credits will also insist on some sort of paper class (e.g. Research Writing, Business Policy). I think this helps ensure degrees are "earned".

    My biggest issue at the moment with credit-by-exam is actually the grading some of the schools use-- I didn't really deserve an A in Astronomy for a DANTES score of 56. I would have been happy with a C grade. An A grade should be reserved for folks who score in the 90+% percentile.

    There's my two cents. I'd actually been thinking about these issues a lot lately, especially after reading on this forum and others about similar topics.
     
  16. zeroglory

    zeroglory New Member

    ohhhhhhhhhhh saiga, you are soOOooOOoOoOoo smart and hardworking.

    is that what you want to hear? Do you have to resort to putting people and their personal choices down to make yourself feel intellectually and morally superior?

    I forgot, you attended college to learn, to really truely learn right?

    Why attend college? You can learn for next to nothing with a card to your local library.

    Stop trying to act like some pure spotless perfect guru of higher learning. Sheesh.
     
  17. mattbrent

    mattbrent Well-Known Member

    And where exactly did you get your degree? At least she has one. During this entire discussion you have failed to mention where you earned a degree.

    If you do actually have a degree, you stooped to childishness in that remark. Obviously you didn't learn maturity at your institution, whatever that institution may or may not be.
     
  18. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

    Steps have been taken to cool things off. It would be nice if people weren't determined to fan the flames. Thanks.
     
  19. soupbone

    soupbone Active Member


    Kizmet, I respect and thank you, Bruce and the rest of the administrators here. It's sad that childish people such as Saiga feel the need to troll forums usually populated with mature distance education learners. His immaturity showed through nearly in the first post. It's obvious he was simply a troll or jealous that other people are successful at testing out of courses.

    Either way I'm done with him but again thanks for attempting to keep the peace. ;)
     
  20. Ian Anderson

    Ian Anderson Active Member

    Some university exams are very easy. For example I took some upper level, in-classroom, geology exams though the University of California and got "A"s just using knowledge from my UK high school geography classes. Never-the-less the classes were interesting because of field trips to some neat places.

    The only CLEP test I took was English Composition - I would say it was a hard test since the essay subject was defined. But old age and treachery got me though. :)
     

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