CLEP exams vs 16 week semester courses

This was also a really good point another poster brought up. I think it's completely crazy when I hear that someone "CLEP'd" out of nearly half their degree. I was lurking around the CLEP forum the other day, and some guy said he took around 13 CLEP exams(and passed) in one month. That's over a year of schooling in the traditional setting...wiped out...in 1 month.

What do you all think about this? Do you think it helps or hinders in the long run to complete credits by simply "brain dumping"?

It reminds me of several people I know who took one of those crash courses to pass the CCNA exam. Sure they passed it, but they haven't been able to hold onto a job because they don't have any idea what they're doing.

I also wonder how graduate schools perceive someone who tested out of half their degree? Unless someone really knows about a subject, I think CLEP exams are kind of selling one's self short a bit.

 

To be honest, how much information do people retain from 16-week courses once the semester is over? You can cram for a traditional butt-in-seat class the same way many people do for CLEP exams. On the other hand, my only undergraduate experience with the subject of accounting was preparing for and taking the (late and much lamented) Principles of Accounting CLEP, and I went on to do well in both Financial and Managerial Accounting classes in b-school.

I would be careful with the term brain dumping, by the way. To most people, it indicates a specific practice that is both unethical and illegal - the copying or reproduction of actual copyrighted exam questions into a testbank used to cheat. Most people here prep for their exams the right way, using either study aids designed for the exam or college textbooks that might be used in the actual course.

 

I've read it expressed like this: a lot of people in traditional college warm-body their degree (or they pay attention to their major but that's it) and know no more (or less) at graduation than a person who tests out, so if all you're looking for is the piece of paper, why not? It's a defensible position that works for some. Personally, I need to take it at a somewhat slower pace because I plan to use what I'm learning (I already have traditional credit for most of the classes I'd be tempted to whiz through) and can't afford to skimp. I'm basically using CLEP as a means to get credit for independent study, which I can do faster than 16 weeks, or even 8.

Phillip

 

I remember sitting in some B&M college classes when I was a younger that didn't require attendance. I ended up coming for the midterm and final only. If I had known about CLEPs back then, I'd have taken some of them instead of wasting all that money.

I used CLEP, DANTES and Excelsior exams to test out of over half of my degree. I didn't cram for my tests and I still remember a good deal of the material I tested on. I still have my books for reference. My goal in completing my BS degree was to be able to eventually earn a Masters. I already had my career and job w/o a BS degree so my degree didn't really help me except for checking a box.

Would I recommend an 18 yr old with no experience testing out of an entire BS degree? No. Would I recommend an adult with job experience and a career that needs to check the box test out of a degree with exams? Absolutely. I do think the 18 yr old should consider some CLEP exams for the general ed. courses in order to save a year of college especially if they are taking on debt to graduate.

The degree I tested out of was in General Business. The Masters I plan on starting in the summer is in History. The info I failed to learn by testing out won't really impact my graduate studies. As for the Psych degree I'm working on, I'm going to try to test out of that as well by passing the Psych GRE with a high enough score. I'm doing that just to see if I can. That degree won't impact my graduate studies either. I wouldn't test out of it if I thought I wanted a graduate degree in Psych.

I will say that I am shocked at the low passing scores required for the CLEPS. Something like 50 out of 120 correct is passing?

 

And where do you propose to study for this degree?

 

Sounds like some of those classes you attended were a joke. Midterm and final only? What about papers? Pop quizzes? Oral presentations? I've never had a class at a B&M university that didn't require you to show up(usually your participation grade started to drop if you began missing days). Care to share what university this was??

Also about the passing grades. Each university is different. The university I goes to requires a passing grade of at least 56-62 for CLEP exams, and they only allow certain classes to count as credit.

I had some amazing experiences in some of my gen ed classes. I'm glad I sat through those courses and had to write papers, attend class and sit for pop quizzes. It prepared me for upper division course work.

 

I'm going to American Military University for my MA in History. With a BS in Business, it would be hard to get into a History program at my local school (University of Washington). I REALLY like the course offerings AMU has. I do have 18 undergrad credits in history, however, all tested out of course.

Shortly after I finished my BS degree from Excelsior, I thought about getting an MBA or an MS in Finance. I was accepted at several B&M schools in the Bay Area when I lived there based on that degree. I had acceptance from San Jose State Univ, Santa Clara University and Golden Gate University. They didn't have any issues with my degree by examination.

 

I'd probably be more inclined to clep a few courses. However, the school I'm looking at for my masters degree doesn't allow clep credit to be transferred for some reasons.

Why didn't you choose the other schools you got accepted to?

 

I went to Penn State University at the main campus. I'm not saying that all my classes were like this. Large research universities (such as Penn State) try to pack as many people possible in some of their freshman classes. I remember having a Chemistry, History and Sociology lecture class with 150 students in each class. There was no way the professor could take roll and certainly didn't have the time to grade extra quizzes, papers etc. It was strictly midterms and finals. Their policy in those classes was that you are an adult and you can show up to lecture or not. They didn't care. I've also had classes at Penn State where I didn't see the professor for a single class. They had a TA working for them teach the class. Some of those TAs were teaching their first or second class and didn't put much effort into it. They only had 2 exams to make their life as easy as possible. Crappy way to run courses? Sure. Is it only Penn State? No. I had friends at other Big Ten schools (Michigan, Ohio State etc.) that complained about the same thing.

I did have other classes that were smaller and those usually required attendance. I ended up getting a job offer and leaving before I made it to my upper level courses. I'm sure they were smaller and also had more work.

 

If I went to BDU (Beer Drinking University) 25 years ago and got my degree, how much would I have retained?

Also, testing out is not as easy as you make it sound. There are some rare individuals who can take 3 CLEPs in a day with little or no study, but they are few and far between. They are also smart cookies who obviously know the material!

After testing out of all 120 credits to complete my BA, I am going to get an MA. I've already spoken with the grad school, and they have no problem with how I'm obtaining the BA.

 

Yeah that sucks. I'm sure it wasn't cheap going there either. The university I attended had class sizes of 30-35 students...sometimes smaller. The community college I attended literally felt like HS. They'd take attendance before class every day lol.

 

For most CLEPs, passing is a scaled score of 50 on a 20-80 scale. It's supposed to be roughly equivalent to earning a C in the actual class.

 

Yeah, but where are you getting the MA from? There's no way I'd get accepted into the program I'm looking at for grad school if I had CLEP'd out of my entire degree.

Some of us didn't actually party that much in college...instacert, I hear, is a really easy way to study for CLEP exams. It's not difficult to memorize a bunch of flash cards...


PS...how are you going to be prepared for graduate school if you never completed a paper and used proper citation(MLA or APA)?

 

I worked at a few pre-ipo dot.com companies and was fortunate to retire. Any education I pursue now is strictly for my own personal interest. At the time I was accepted, I wanted to further my business eduction. Now, I want to study things that I enjoy such as History, Photography etc. If I was still working, I would have certainly gone to one of those schools. I chose AMU for my MA in History because I like the wide variety of course choices. I need my MA to keep my interested being that I don't need it for my career.

I might adjunct some History classes with it but I think that a PhD is going to be the minimum even for adjuncting History in the future. I haven't ruled out a PhD down the road either. Again, it'll be for personal growth and to teach some classes for fun. Education has become one of my hobbies

 

That's really cool. I think it's smart for people to keep sharp, whether it's watching jeopardy, taking a few college courses, or playing scattegories! haha

 

I just grabbed my study guide for the Western Civ I CLEP exam. There is a chart in the front converting a raw score to a scaled score for the practice exam. They say this chart is close to the real conversion.

A raw score of 0 out of 120 correct is a 20. A raw score of 100+ out of 120 correct is 80.

On the practice exam, they claim a raw score of 42 out of 120 is a scaled score of 47 which they claim to be passing. I know most schools use a cutoff of 50. That said, a raw score of 50 out of 120 being correct is a 50 scaled.

66 out of 120 is a scaled score of 59 which is an A.

Thinking back, I don't think the actual exam raw/scaled score conversion is that much different than this.

 

I'm actually taking two distance ed. undergrad writing courses from Penn State this semester to help me get ready for my MA program this summer. I think those will get my writing muscle warmed up for the serious writing.

 

That question was actually directed at "thatbrian". He said he completed his entire undergrad by testing out. I didn't know how he would be prepared for grad school without ever taking an actual course.

 

Saiga:

I think a lot of people on this forum are a bit older than the average college freshman. My own situation is that I already covered all my basics Reading, Writing and Arthimatic, if you like, at B&M schools. I got tired of them adding useless gender studies, and blah, blah, blah, to get a stinking degree. I already have an AA and AS and wasn't going to earn more with a Bachelor's than I was making as an experienced paralegal. So stopped the whole game and I remember thinking at the time, I'd only finish IF I needed it for a career and I knew what I really wanted.

So fast forward and now here I am.

I have to say as I was a working student I would have loved to have known about CLEP and DANTES back then; however, I also did enjoy being in class. I used to tease my husband if I could just get paid to go to school I would do that.

Getting into graduate school depends on a lot of variables but there are many success stories on here who have already done that with their DL degrees.

Bottom line if you want or need to save time and money and it works for you and what you want to accomplish - you aren't cheating or hurting anyone - then why not? If you have time and money enough to afford a traditional degree and that works for you, then that works too

 

Here's a thought.

Realistically, how is a CLEP exam any different than an AP exam? Mind you, I've never taken a CLEP exam, though, had I known about them I definitely would have. I did take 3 AP exams when in high school. From my understanding, both exams have certain scores you need to reach to "pass" and the institution you will be attending will determine how much credit to award you. AP is such a big name, yet CLEP is not. The guidance counselors at the school where I work certainly don't promote it.

Just a thought, but I don't see a problem with testing out of half a degree. It seems like most of the tests only cover general ed courses anyway.

-Matt